0:00 Why do you think you can't return to the Father? And she said, long ago, we made a pact. And I'm one of the fold. And we knew when we made that pact that we could never return to the Father. And even though we longed to, we would do anything to come back to Him. We're no longer allowed. So I just said, you mean Jesus Christ? And she flipped a switch. Let me see one star. Six, five, four, three, two, one. Tonight's episode is about the Book of Enoch, a quite contentious subject among ufologists, as it seems to explain some things that are in the Bible that would help us understand the phenomenon better, from a biblical's perspective.
1:02 Or does it? One of the most fascinating things about this book is that it says that it was written for the elect that are alive at the end of time. Is this a revelation or a major deception? We'll be letting you decide on that yourself as this evidence is presented. If you want to control your faith, if you want to contribute your thoughts, or be on top of the latest news as it happens, or perhaps you just want to see uncut footage from our interviews, join our Patreon at patreon.com slash strangenormal. This show continues to reach others only by your contributions alone. Our guest tonight is Wendy Parker. Wendy is an educator. She has her Master's in Education and Biblical Literacy. She certainly has a desire to continue learning, especially about the Bible. This is why we brought her on the program tonight, because Wendy has an excellent understanding about what should and should not be in the Bible, and what matches and doesn't match.
1:57 So tonight, we are diving deep into the Book of Enoch. Wendy, I've been wanting to go over the Book of Enoch for a while. This is interesting. I heard there's even more than one book, so I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about that interesting book that's not even in the Bible. Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad to be here, Brad, and I do. I have the Book of Enoch that I've read, and there are actually three books of Enoch, so I'll kind of go through a bunch about it, like the history, what most scholars have to say, historians, and then we'll actually open it up and kind of look at it and compare it to the Bible and just let your audience choose for themselves what they want to believe and where to go from there with the Book of Enoch. Cool. Yeah, sounds good. All right, so the first thing that's notable about the Book of Enoch is that it's not one manuscript. Kind of like the Bible, it's a composite of several different manuscripts, and it was written by several authors over 300 to 400 years.
3:06 And so to say that it's all written by Enoch, you know, they're not even claiming that. What they say is that there are several authors who used the pen name Enoch and then wrote, kind of, an addition to what was original. Cool. So you'd think that it was from Enoch if it was written as the Book of Enoch. Could it be that there's more than one Enoch? I don't know. That's really interesting, because maybe it's not the same Enoch. Then who is this Enoch if it's not the same one? An old Jewish rabbi named Enoch. I don't know. Yeah, so the other thing is it's divided into a lot of different parts.
3:51 And like the Bible, I don't think that the authors that wrote the different parts could foresee it being then put together as one book. So a lot of it doesn't go smoothly because it has many authors and it wasn't originally intended to be one book, if that makes sense. Okay, so I'm going to read some of this to you because it's a lot of information that I don't have memorized. And this is... Are you going to read some of the Book of Enoch? This is not yet the book, so let me just show you what I have. Sure. This is the Books of Enoch, but it's by a guy named Joseph Lumpkin, if you can see there. Okay, okay. He does a really good job at... He includes all of the Books of Enoch, but he also does a really good job at having commentary that's very unbiased.
4:42 So he says, you know, this is what scholars say, some historians say this, and then he has quotes from the Book of Enoch, and then he has where he compares it to what's in the Bible, but he doesn't in any way say what he believes or, you know, it's just very unbiased, which I appreciate. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. So this right here is part of the introduction to the Books of Enoch before you even get into the actual manuscripts. And I just found it interesting because I didn't know the background of it beforehand. So it says, the Book of Enoch was discovered in the 18th century. It was assumed to have been penned after the beginning of the Christian era. But this theory was based on the fact that it has quotes and paraphrases as well as concepts found in the New Testament. Thus, it was assumed that it's heavily influenced writers such as Jude and Peter.
5:39 And so when I first started having interest into the Book of Enoch, I will say it's because of the Book of Jude, where it mentions more about Enoch than it does in the beginning of the Bible. And so I'd watched some of the Bible Project. I'm not sure if you're familiar with them at all. But they had often mentioned the Book of Enoch and their take on it was that it was probably like a common piece of literature that all of the disciples had read, including Jesus, potentially. We don't know. But he had said that it had enough influence that part of the writing of the Book of Enoch had ended up making it into the Bible. And so the debate is, is it inspired by God as the other books of the Bible, or is it just, you know, a Jewish tale that's spread around?
6:34 Gotcha. Okay. That's for the viewers to decide, I guess, as we go through this. The other thing that I found was interesting is that it says that there's recent discoveries of copies of the Book among the Dead Sea Scrolls. And they said that this was in existence before the time of Jesus. And it says that's when it became obvious that the New Testament did not influence the Book of Enoch, but that the Book of Enoch influenced the New Testament. Again, because it's in Jude. Interesting. Okay. And it also notes, it says it's been largely the opinion of historians, that the book does not really contain authentic words of the ancient Enoch, since he would have lived several thousand years earlier than the first known appearance of the book attributed to him.
7:26 So that's, I mean, I think a really important aspect to take into consideration when we read books and look at their authenticity. You know, the Gospels, they say were written in really close distance from the time when Jesus lived to the time that the apostles wrote and started you know, circulating the story of Jesus, you know, less than a hundred years. So to say that it's thousands of years later, you know, how accurate or well-kept manuscript story are you going to have at that point? Right. Yeah. And I think one of the Gospels was written a little bit longer, but not very much, right? I mean, all, there was like three of them that were written right in close proximity and one of them that was kind of written a little bit later, but not much. Yeah. Yeah. But still hundreds of years compared to thousands is a big leap when you're coming to authenticity of historical documents. So it's just, you know, something, something to think about when you're looking at the book and its authenticity.
8:28 Okay. So we're just going to get into where I personally think there are issues with the book of Enoch and the Bible. For those of you that have never read the book of Enoch, the part that is a little bit more a little bit fascinating is it really focuses on Enoch and in Genesis. So you have, you know, Adam and Eve and the fall of Adam and Eve. And then it goes through and it says, you know, they begot Seth and Seth begot so-and-so, so-and-so. I don't know the whole line. And then it gets to Enoch and it says, you know, he lived and walked with God for 365 years and then was taken. And from there, it's just like this, huh? Okay. And that's it. For Enoch, that's all you have. And then it just talks about some genealogy. And then it goes straight into the days of Noah when the whole world is filled with violence and, you know, God's going to destroy it because he can't handle all the sin that's abounding.
9:30 And so the book of Enoch, when I first read it, like 10 years ago, was extremely intriguing to me because what it does is it takes that, like, span of time in the Bible and kind of fills in the gaps as to what was happening on earth that made it so horrible and why. I will say, as I hope that we all do, I've grown a lot in my understanding of the Bible since then. And so, you know, what I'd read 10 years ago and thought, oh, I guess this, you know, this lines up here and this lines up there. Looking back and reading it again recently, I can say that I now see a lot of places where, wait a minute, that's not what the Bible says. So, you know, discernment with any book you have that you want to read, even if it's about God, especially if it's about God, to see where it lines up with the Bible.
10:28 So what were... Sorry, I didn't want to cut you off. I'm just excited about this. What were some of the places that you were kind of amazed at? Because I know that book isn't even in the Bible. You'd think that they would put together these books at the Council of Nicaea or something, I forget what it's called, that they would have included this if it was a part of history. So I'm very curious. Go ahead. That's okay. Well, the parts that intrigue me were where it talks about the fallen angels coming and it just really doesn't talk about... So, you know, there's the fall of Satan, and then you know that he then is at enmity between God's seed for the sons of Adam. And so from there, you don't see any of what happens other than, you know, you wake up and it's the time of Noah and the whole world is corrupted.
11:32 So what the book of Enoch says is that there are specific fallen angels that... taught mankind very specific sins. And it goes into like incredible detail about how and why and... You know, just kind of reading that, you're like, wow, I see this huge progression of how mankind was kind of this innocent little child creation. And then from this one sin, they just progressed into, you know, something worth being destroyed by God. So forgive me, because I'm learning as you're talking, I don't want to go in too much detail if it's terrible and grotesque, but these sins were... Does the book of Enoch describe these sins? I haven't read it. So I'm curious. I'm learning through you. Yeah, it does. So as I start reading through the book, I did include a couple of quotes, maybe scriptures or, you know, whatever you want to call it.
12:28 So I will just get started in here, and then that will answer your question for you. So first of all, the fallen angels. So I'm going to read a little bit of this. And like I said, I'm just going to compare it to the Bible to see how it lines up. And then I'll let you interject as you will, just, you know, what you're noticing and we'll see that maybe lines up and maybe doesn't, because there is some, you know, there's some stuff that does line up. So, okay. Chapter six describes the fallen angels in the book of Enoch. And it says, it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born to them beautiful and fair daughters. And the angels, the sons of heaven saw and lusted after them and said to one another, come let us choose wives from among the children of men and have children with them.
13:22 And then it goes to mention some names of these fallen angels. And I'm just going to tell you, this is my own personal preference. I don't, I'm not comfortable like reading out loud the names of the fallen angels. I don't, it just weirds me out. In the Bible, it doesn't mention any fallen angels except Lucifer. And I don't know. It just seems weird. Like it names so many fallen angels in here. And I think it mentions maybe one or two holy angels by name that aren't in the Bible. I just don't, I don't know if it's true or not, but I'm like, if it is true, somehow the names are in there. I don't want to give them any glory. So. Yeah. And it's weird because most of the Bible, when you have a good angel that appears, they say, what's your name? He's like, why do you want to give us, why do you want to give me, why do you want me to give my name? I mean, once in a while, Gabriel maybe is mentioned, but most of the time they're like, nah, you don't need to know who I am.
14:17 Right. Yeah. Yeah. Glory to God, not to us. So, but yeah, they're fallen, you know, maybe they want that glory. Anyway, so it says, this one angel who was their leader said to them, fear you, fear you will not agree to do this deed and I alone to pay the penalty of this great sin. And they all answered him and said, let us swear an oath and all bind ourselves by mutual curses so that we will not abandon this plan, but to do this thing. And they swore together and bound themselves by mutual curses. And they were in all 200 who descended in the days of Jared in the summit of Mount Horeb. And they called it Mount Horeb because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual curses in the act. It's scary how much it sounds like the Bible, just you reading that. That's amazing. Yeah, it does. I mean, it's really written with the same, you know, voice and old way of speaking.
15:17 And yeah, it's written very similar. So when you compare it to Genesis, Genesis 6, one through three, it says, it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair and they took of them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, my spirit shall not always strive with man for that he also is flesh and that his days would be 120 years. And then it talks about Lucifer and how Lucifer was fallen from heaven. But what I want to mention here is that the Bible, when it speaks of this instance, it never says specifically that the sons of God are fallen angels. And I know there's a lot of debate about that in general, but I think it's really important not to add to what the Bible had.
16:15 And so the book of Enoch, instead of saying that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair, they literally just say it was the fallen angels. The angels, the sons of heaven saw and lusted after them. So there's no guessing when it comes to the book of Enoch. Interesting. So, wow. So they say, interesting. Okay, keep going. Keep going. I'll save my words. It's okay. So one thing that I wanted to point out about this is in the very beginning of the book of Enoch, I'm just going to read this to you because it really caught my eye the first time I read it and I couldn't figure out why. But the very first, very first piece of scripture, it feels weird seeing scripture if I'm not sure if it's scripture or not, but Enoch 1.1 says, the words of the blessing of Enoch with which he blessed the elect and righteous who will be living in the day of tribulation when all the wicked and godless people are to be removed from the earth.
17:24 So basically, Enoch 1.1 is dedicating the book of Enoch to the elect of God who are alive before Jesus' return. And I found that really interesting. Certainly because of all this alien talk, if you want to talk alien. But if you were to follow the New Age religion, and last time I was on here, we talked about Peter Levenda and his whole take on all of this. When he mentions the New Age faith and how they believe that we are all seed from aliens, he says this has been proven over in the Bible. And he takes the stance that the fallen angels are the ones that impregnated the women to then have the Nephilim and, you know, cause sin on the world. And so it's interesting to me that the New Age religion, this is what they believe.
18:19 And then the book of Enoch is saying the same thing and saying it's dedicated to the people who are alive right before Jesus' return. Interesting. Yeah, it is. So there's that kind of weird tie. Okay, moving on. So this is where your answer will come for what was taught to mankind. The next section is about demons and what they taught man to sin, how they taught them to sin. I'm just going to figure it out. Mm-hmm. Demons and how they taught them to sin. Interesting. Yeah. Okay, so it's going to name a lot of demons specifically, or fallen angels. And it's going to go into specifically what they taught them. So I'm going to just botch the names on purpose because I don't like their names.
19:09 So it says, Azaz taught men to make swords and knives and shields and breastplates and taught them about metals of the earth and the art of working them and bracelets and ornaments and the use of antimony and the beautifying of the eyelids and all kinds of precious stones and all coloring and dyes. And there was great impiety and they turned away from God and committed fornication and they were led astray and became corrupt in all their ways. So those are the main sins that are attributed to that angel. And then there's another one. It says, Semjah taught the casting of spells and root cuttings. Armar taught counter spells or release from spells. Rakeel taught astrology.
20:05 So, you know, forecasting the future with the stars. Kabel taught constellations. Zekiel taught the knowledge of the clouds. Akeel taught signs of the earth. And Samzi taught signs of the sun. Another one, the course of the moon. And it says, and because of this, men perished and they cried and their cry went up to the heavens. Wait. Why did it say that they perished? Because they were taught these sins or because... Yeah. That's what it's alluding to. Yeah. All these things happened and then these men perished because of their sins, because of all these things and their cry went up to heaven.
20:54 Later in the book of Enoch, it's way further, but it talks about more of the sins and it talks about how one of the angels taught the women how to perform abortion. Oh. So that's listed there as well. Yeah. It's like, it's called like blows to the womb to stop the birth. Wow. Which is really important. Yeah. So it's interesting to me, you know, you have angels teaching man these sins and it may be true again, but this part just, I just really don't like that it has all of their names in here. It's like, I don't like glorifying them in the way that they've taught mankind to fall. Right. So then chapter 10 says, the Lord then says, go bind them and the team who have associated with women and have defiled themselves in all their uncleanness.
21:48 And then I just kind of skip around to show some real contrasts with the Bible. Mm-hmm. So here we have in chapter 10, in chapter 12, this is where Enoch kind of enters in. So what the book of Enoch says is that once Enoch was taken to heaven, he was then made into God's scribe. And so it was his job to write down everything, like all of the comings and goings of mankind and just everything that happened constantly. That was Enoch's job. And so chapter 12, we have Enoch on the scene and it says, then Enoch disappeared and no one of him, of the children of men, knew where he was hidden and where he abode and what had become of him.
22:38 And his activities were with the holy ones and the watchers, which is the book's name for the fallen angels. Well, how do they know this? Yeah. It's a good question. Who knows? Well, okay. So later in the book, it says that, Enoch comes, he speaks a lot about Noah, which doesn't make sense because Enoch was long before Noah's time. But it says that Enoch comes back and talks with Noah. And so if you wanted to believe that was true, potentially he gave this stuff to Noah, but the Bible definitely doesn't have that anywhere in scripture. So that's definitely not a place where the books match up.
23:28 So yeah, it says, and I Enoch was blessing the Lord of majesty and the king of the ages and lo the watchers called me. So the falling angels are calling Enoch saying Enoch the scribe and said to me, okay, wait, first this is, I believe it's supposed to be Christ talking to him. Enoch, you scribe of righteousness, go tell the watchers of heaven who have left the high heaven and the holy eternal place and have defiled themselves with women. And have done as the children of earth do and have taken to themselves wives. You have done great destruction on the earth and you shall have no peace nor forgiveness of sin. Since they delight themselves in their children, they shall see the murder of their beloved ones and the destruction of their children. And they shall lament and shall make supplication forever and you will receive neither mercy nor peace. So this is what Enoch is supposed to go to.
24:24 This is what Enoch is supposed to go tell to the watchers. So in the book, the watchers, they go and ask Enoch. There's a lot to cover here and I kind of talk about it later, but in the book of Enoch, the fallen angels are not allowed to enter heaven at all. They have no contact with God whatsoever. They can't talk to him. They're just banished and it has like a really weird place that they hold them. But so in this dialogue here, the watchers or the fallen angels are asking Enoch, can you go to God and can you ask for our forgiveness? And so here you have God talking to Enoch and saying, tell them no, like there's no forgiveness for them whatsoever. And because you were so awful and you love your demon children, you will see their destruction and you're going to lament and make supplication forever, but you'll get no mercy and no peace.
25:27 Wow. Really? Yeah, it's really horrible. One, because if you read this section, you have like this like pity and almost sadness for the fallen angels because it's like they want to come back to heaven. They want to seek forgiveness and God's just like, no, you've done too much. It's over for you. This is all in 12? Is this chapter 12 of Enoch? Or you said 12? Yeah, this is in 12. Yeah. And so if you're reading this, it really paints a horrible picture of God's character. You know, we read scripture that says, you know, the Lord is patient and not slack in his promises because he wants nobody to perish. It's not in his will that even one person should perish.
26:20 And here you have the fallen angels, you know, begging for forgiveness and they're just denied, which, you know, it's horrible. But do we see anywhere in scripture where the fallen angels repent anywhere? There's just nothing. No, they don't repent. No. They don't. Actually, I have some scriptures here and I don't know if you could look them up faster than I could, or I do have my Bible here. I can do it, yeah. Okay, so Matthew 10, 28 is one I wanted to look at. Okay. And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill a soul, rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. That was 28. Okay, good. So this goes with the author's note.
27:14 I didn't read this yet, but I will now. So it says, Although we are led to believe that fallen angels are loathsome, and evil, they loved and adored their children according to what was stated above. Further, it was not the angels that became the demons, it was their children whose spirits were evil and could not be killed. So that's really convoluted. It's saying, you know, these demons have love and adoration for their children, these fallen angels. And then it's saying that the spirits of the fallen angels of their children cannot be killed. But what the Bible says is that God alone has immortality. Yeah. So to say that demons' children cannot be killed, you're saying they're immortal. Yeah, so here, that was Matthew 10, 28. I also have Isaiah 1, 28.
28:09 1, 28. And then I'm going to look up 1 Timothy. Isaiah 1, 28 says, But rebels and sinners shall be broken together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed. Isaiah 1, 28. Good. So, yeah, I mean, clearly showing that if you're not with the Lord, there's no eternal life. You're not going to live forever in, you know, torture or, here they're just saying that they're, they're going to be destructed, but that they're going to live forever in destruction. Okay. And then I'm going to have to have you read this one. So it's 1 Timothy 6, 16. 16. My toddler ripped out the tiny corner of my Bible, and that was terrible. It says, It is He alone who has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see.
29:10 To Him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. Amen. Yeah. So, you know, the spirits of fallen angels are not immortal. I just wanted to throw that in there. Okay. So moving on. You can see how it was just creating sympathy for these fallen angels. Okay. So then chapter 13 goes back into Enoch and just moving that computer here a little bit. So I can read this clear. It says, this is kind of what I had already explained to you. This is Enoch speaking in chapter 13, five, and he says, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
29:56 It says, and they asked me to write a petition for them, that they might find forgiveness and to read their petition in the presence of the Lord of heaven. They had been forbidden to speak with him, nor were they to lift up their eyes to Heaven for shame of their sins because they had been condemned. And then I skip ahead to chapter 14, where they get their answer again. Your petition will not be granted from here on. You shall not descend into heaven again for all eternity. It will be bound on Earth for all eternity. before this, you will see the destruction of your beloved sons and you shall have no pleasure in them, but they shall fall before you by the sword. Your petition shall not be granted on their behalf or on yours, even though you weep and pray and speak all the words contained in my writings. And so here, um, it just, again, strikes me as such a bad slander on God's character because it's showing, um, of course I gave you just a tiny section of it, but Enoch from when you, when you read it, you can see that Enoch has sympathy for the watchers and that's why he's willing to listen to their petition and willing to take it to the Lord. So that, I mean, the question is, is Enoch more merciful than God? It reminds me of the, the Hollywood TV series, Lucifer. The whole thing is based around sympathy for the devil. And, and so is this providing sympathy for...
31:20 For fallen angels? And, and again, I don't think there's any biblical proof of, of these fallen angels ever asking for forgiveness. In fact, what we see all throughout the Bible is that they're continuing in sin. They're continuing to torture and, and lead God's children astray. So, you know, how is that in any way asking for forgiveness? And, um, yeah, it just doesn't, doesn't really match up very well. Um, so then I'm going to move ahead to chapter 18 and that describes where fallen angels are supposedly held, which kind of contradicts also what it said a moment ago, because a moment ago, it said that you shall not ascend into heaven again for all eternity, but you'll be bound on earth for all eternity, which does line up with the Bible. You know, it says that a third of the angels fell from heaven. And, um, you know, uh, a lot of us, and scholars do believe that the angels are then bound to earth um in type of a quarantine and so that lined up with god with the bible but then we have this that says in chapter 18 verse 15 yes thank you this has become a prison for the stars and host of heaven and the place is the end of heaven and earth stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the lord and the beginning of their rising because they did not come out at their proper times so that's just the beginning of it and then chapter 19 goes into more detail about it and one of the fallen angels no i'm sorry this is a good angel and a good angel said to me the angel who have had relations with women shall stand here and their spirits having assumed many different forms and defiling mankind shall lead them astray into sacrificing to demons as gods interesting here they shall stand until the day of great judgment in which they shall be judged and are made an end of and i went out from there to another place and was still more horrible than the former and i saw a terrible thing a great fire which burned was cleft as far as the abyss full of great falling columns of fire so this is talking about where these fallen angels are supposed to be held in a huge abyss with falling columns of fire wait so that's the book of enoch is saying that they're held there now or that they will be oh wow um it this is what enoch saw so this is where it said that the um the angels are being kept so i'll keep going because it describes it a little bit better um it says then i proceeded to where things were chaotic and void and i saw there something horrible i saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth but a place chaotic and horrible and there i saw seven stars of heaven bound together in it like great mountains and burning with fire i'm just gonna skip ahead because it's a lot of some yeah and it says um neither its width or breath could i see nor could i see its source so just kind of like undescribable i guess then verse nine says then i said i'm afraid of this place and cannot stand to look at it then this angel one of the holy angels who is with me answered and said enoch why are you so afraid and i answered because of this fearful place and because of the spectacle of the pain and he said to me this place is the prison of the angels and here they will be in imprisoned forever and so you have this idea that the angels are being held in this place that's at the edge of heaven and earth and they are being punished right now and forever um it's interesting because the question then is does god have anybody in torment and punishment now no so i'm gonna have you look up um revelation 23 i have 17 8 here too and i'm not sure which one is more applicable
35:49 so if you could look up yeah chapter 20 verse 3 oh chapter 20 verse 3 okay okay and cast him out into the bottomless pit and shut him up and set a seal upon him and that he should receive um or deceive the nations no more till the thousand years should be fulfilled and after that he must be loosed for a little season good okay so this in my bible is where i have um the bottomless pit is underlined and this does line up a little bit with what enoch says because the word bottomless pit is translated from abusos which means void boundless space which they actually did a great job of describing you know i said that there's no no earth below no heaven above um but what we have in revelation is a very specific time when the devil is cast into that bottomless pit and that's after the return of christ and so what they're saying here is that you know this is the place where all of the angels are and and currently held yes and it's so uh painful that enoch can't even look at it But what I did want to mention, where it speaks of, okay, Matthew 45, 41. Then shall he say also unto them, on the left hand, depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Yeah, so here we have the everlasting fire that's prepared, meaning that they're not there yet.
37:39 You know, there's another place where it says that, you know, he reserves judgment and they're being held until that time of judgment. And so I think over and over what we're seeing here is it's not exactly, you know, the same story that they have in Enoch. So that's just this little section where it says that the angels are being held, you know, permanently. And then we're going to see in a minute here. It just moved on me that he also speaks of a place where the spirits are held. Enoch 22 talks about the souls of the dead being gathered in heaven, which is really interesting. So I'll read from Enoch. And then again, I'll just give you some scriptures so you can kind of do the Bible comparison for me. So it says, then one of the angels answered, one of the holy angels who was with me.
38:39 And said to me, these hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should be gathered here and that the souls of the children of men should be brought together here. And these places have been made to receive them until the day of their judgment and until the period appointed until the great judgment comes on them. And so I will read a little bit further down. But there is an. Author note that I wanted to read. So this is the Joseph Lumpkin. This is his little note on this, that the idea of a gathering place of the dead is seen in the doctrine of purgatory, which is part of the Catholic faith. If you're not aware, um, where the dead are gathered and those who are redeemable are kept and purified until such a time where they might ascend to heaven. So, um, we are going to again, look at this and a little bit.
39:39 Where the Bible says something that's a little different. Um, I'm gonna keep reading. So, um, verse four says, I saw the spirit of a dead man and his voice went out to heaven and made petitions. And I asked this holy angel who was with me and said, this spirit, which petitions, whose is it? Whose voice goes up and petitions heaven. And he answered saying to me, this is a spirit, which went out from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him until. His offspring is destroyed from the face of the earth and his offspring are annihilated from among the children of men. So here we have, um, the soul of Abel just continuously crying out, um, and asking for, you know, Jesus to avenge him. That's really confusing. Yeah, it is.
40:30 It is. And I guess what I noted here is in the Bible, it says that. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. He's the one that's like, Hey, you know, they're doing this wrong. Aren't you going to write it? Aren't, aren't you going to make yourself the just one and deal with them as they should be. But here we have righteous Abel saying this about his brother. It just doesn't seem in line. Yeah. Where is that verse? The accuser of the brother. Let's see. And then so verse nine, it says he answered and said to me, these three have. Been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. So you're talking about like these big chasms that Enoch was seeing in heaven.
41:18 And it says they've been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. Divisions have been made for the spirits of the righteous and which there is a bright spring of water and one for centers when they die and they are buried in the earth and judgment has not been executed on them in their lifetime. So here it's saying that when you die, your. Uh, your spirit, I guess, goes to heaven, but then it's separated. So the righteous go to one place and then it says the dead are kept buried in the ground. The dead that are sinful. Um, but I have a lot of scripture. I want to look up with that one. So I don't know if you found the accuser, the accuser of our brethren, revelation 12, nine through 11, and the great dragon was thrown down that, uh, that ancient.
42:08 Serpent who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was thrown down to earth and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of God and the authority of Christ have come for the accuser of the brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. Very good. Yeah. And so, you know, they're then taking. The characteristic of Satan and putting them on able, um, just isn't very comfortable. So if we keep reading where it says that there's a place for the spirits of the righteous dead, and it says that the righteous dead are placed in this chasm that's in heaven and the dead that are wicked are still buried in the earth. Um, so then I have. Some scripture to look up for this one, because my question was, when I was reading, this is why does it say that David King David righteous King David is still in the grave. So it'd be acts 1336. Acts 1336 says now when David had served God's purposes in his own generation, he fell asleep.
43:30 He was buried with his ancestors and his body decayed. Yeah. So here we have David in the grave. You know, it doesn't say anything about spirit going anywhere. I didn't see anything about the spirit going away. No, not at all. I'm going to reread it in a different language, different language, different translation here. Um, just to make sure I understand it completely. Well, I'm going to throw in here really quick. Job 14. Okay. So we have Joe 14, 12 through 14, and it says, so man lies down and does not rise till the heavens are no more. They will. Not awake nor be roused from their sleep. Oh, that you would hide me in the grave, that you would conceal me until your wrath is passed, that you would appoint me a set time and remember me. If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service.
44:27 I will wait till my change comes. So here we have Job talking about being in the grave until, um, heavens are no more. So it's a little contradictory to say. That they're actually in heaven waiting there. If the Bible says that you are in the grave until the heavens are no more. Yeah. Is that the same? Is, is that the same one? I thought there was one that said, uh, David is in the grave until, until this day. Yeah, here it is. There's one in Acts too. It says, uh, let me see me read it. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch, David, that he is both dead and buried. And his sepulchre is with us until this day. He's isn't, I mean, he's, he's a righteous man.
45:19 He's dead and buried. Still in that grave. Okay. And then the last one, uh, is Daniel. So Daniel 12, two, and I think this one is what makes the distinction, um, where the book of Enoch says the dead that are righteous are in one place and the dead that are wicked are in another, I think in Daniel, this is where we see that. Both are in the same place. You want me to read it? Yeah. So two and three, please. Okay. Two and three. All right. So, and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake some to everlasting life and some to everlasting contempt. And they that will be, and they, and they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament. And they that turn many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever. Hmm. So here we see, it says many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake. Some will be awake to everlasting life and some will awake to shame and everlasting contempt.
46:24 Hmm. So both the wicked and the righteous are still in the dust. Hmm. Hmm. Dust of the earth. Until the time when we're awakened. Hmm. Until the change has come as, as that one author said. Yes. And Colossians three, four, it says when Christ, who is our life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. I have a couple that I like to, um, read for that, uh, assurance of when, because there's always that question of when. Um, so here it says, uh, sorry, this is first Thessalonians four, 13. I do not want you to be ignorant brethren concerning those who have fallen asleep. And I'm going to fast forward. Um, for the Lord himself would descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, with the trumpet of God and the dead in Christ will rise first.
47:25 Yes. So we will not rise again until the Lord comes. And then we who are alive and remain will be caught together with him in the clouds and meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Which, which verse is that? That's first Thessalonians four. And then that was 16 and 17. Love it. So the Bible is really specific about where we are. We're in the dust of the earth and we don't rise from the earth until the Lord returns. And those who are dead rise first, but we will see them if we're still alive at that time and we meet them in the air. So it's not like there's, you know, a big distance of time between the two happening. Um, it's one after the other. And. I feel like the Bible is really clear about the timeline for that. Yeah. Um, so I'm just going to keep going with the book of Enoch.
48:20 There's one more, um, really good point that I want to bring out. And then I have a few tidbits that I gathered from a video that I wanted to share. Okay. Um, chapter 32 of Enoch. This is talking about, um, Enoch, I guess was taken to. Go and see, um, what's like the beginning, I guess. And so, um, it says, this is Enoch and I came to the garden of righteousness. I saw far beyond those trees, more trees, and they were numerous and large. There were two trees. They're very large, beautiful, glorious, and magnificent. The tree of knowledge who is holy fruit. They ate and acquired great wisdom. And I said, how beautiful is the tree and how attractive it is.
49:18 How attractive is it? Then I said, mentioned holy angel who is with me answered and said, this is the tree of wisdom with your, of which your father of old and your mother of old, who were your progenitors have eaten. And they learned wisdom and their eyes were opened and they knew that they were naked and they were driven out of the. Garden tree of wisdom. Yeah, that sounds like the tree of knowledge of good and evil to me. Oh, definitely right. It's very convoluted. So what I, what I picked up on right away is he says, like, I saw this tree and it was beautiful and glorious, how attractive and beautiful this tree is. This is Enoch. Just, you know, he just glances at it and says all these things.
50:09 Well, in Genesis three, six, um, I don't know if you want to draw that up. I'm just going to summarize it, but it's the serpent who deceives Eve to believe that the tree was good and pleasant to her eyes. And when the woman, oh, go ahead. No, no, go ahead. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food and then that it was pleasant to the eyes and the tree and a tree to be desired to make one wise tree of wisdom, she took. Of the. Fruit thereof and did eat and gave also under her husband with her and he did eat. Yeah. So what you see here is that they've had this tree around them the whole time and never once did they believe it was good and pleasing to the eyes until the serpent came on the scene.
51:04 So the very thoughts that Enoch has when seeing the tree, you know, he's saying it's beautiful. It's it's pleasant. It's the most magnificent tree I've ever seen. How beautiful. It. Is it's the same lie that's coming from the serpent. And there's there's like building it up like it's a great tree or something. This is the tree of wisdom that you're your parents ate from. This is the wow. Wow. This really blows my mind. But it's the tree that caused the fall of mankind. Yeah. So that was the cherry that I kind of ended on. It just doesn't line up with. The you know, the things that I'm reading in the Bible, I don't see how how they line up very well. Interesting.
51:55 So I have one last thing. Go no, go for it. Go for it. I was going to kind of summarize what you have been saying so far, but go for it if you have one. Well, let me summarize and then we'll go into the last point. So it names the fallen angels. And I don't know if I got every point I've been trying to follow along, but I've also been trying to focus on what what verses were on names the fallen angels, which is kind of strange. That. It would give give. It would name them, then it gives you almost gives pity for the fallen angels. It gives a bad view of God's character. It gives no repentance. There was no repentance, repentance in scripture from the fallen angels. But it seems to indicate that these things can be repent. These I wrote down demons. Children cannot be killed. I don't know why I wrote that down. You remember what that was? Yeah, that's what it said.
52:51 It said that the demons had children and they were immortal. That's right. Where the Bible says that God alone has immortality. That's crazy. All angels are. It says that Enoch says that all angels are currently held in hell. But we know that they are not because we have all kinds of struggles here on Earth today. Accusers is the accuser is. Abel, not Satan in one of the tales in the Enoch, which is supposed to be it's Satan in the Bible, but it's Abel in in this one. I don't know if we're ever the accuser timeline doesn't match in the in the Book of Enoch and the Tree of Wisdom is almost held in high regard as it's called the Tree of Wisdom and Genesis six calls it the Tree of Wisdom and doesn't hold in high regard. So that doesn't match either. Oh, what's your what's your your thoughts your final point? Hey shows not over but we want to take a moment to thank you for partnering with us. We are grateful for your support and interest in our cause we are doing this full time. So your generous contributions help us make a difference in the lives of those who need the most if you would like to make a donation, please visit patreon.com slash strange normal.
54:06 Thank you for your kindness and generosity. Just the fact that the Book of Enoch wasn't found until thousands of years after it makes the whole thing. Just really beautiful. Really questionable in my mind. That's the beginning of it. So, you know, historically, we can't say that it's something we can trust as well as the Bible. So if you're gonna, you know, look as to which book is telling you the truth, obviously, we put our hope in our faith in the Bible. When you read the Bible, from beginning to end. Everything's paralleled everything matches Old Testament New Testament Psalms Proverbs. And the same view of God's character. It says God never changes. And so when you have other books that you're reading to see if it lines up when you see a distortion of God's character, that's when I become really weary.
55:00 You know, what is it that this book is trying to say? And it could be that there was an original Book of Enoch that the disciples and potentially Jesus read. That was, you know, more accurate. Yeah. Yeah. You know, because we don't know what pieces were added in. And so it could be that all the pieces that I found were added in later. And now we have a book that's, you know, maybe 75%. I wouldn't even say it's that high. Partially lined up with the Bible and partially doesn't. But if you take something and you say, well, you know, it's 50%. Accurate. Well, if something is 50% not accurate, then it's a full lie.
55:49 Right? Like this is the devil's favorite game. Let's just take a bunch of truth and mix in lies here and there. So they can't tell the difference. And then slowly those lies become truth in Christian culture. And so, you know, that's the hard part that we have to be really careful. And we have to pray for discernment and ask the Holy Spirit to help us. Yeah. And then we have to show us where things align with God and where they don't. And then, you know, they say don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. But sometimes you've got to toss it all if you're not sure. If you can't discern what's true and what's not, then it becomes, you know, dangerous swimming water. It does. It puts it in the suspect. That's what I think. I mean, the whole thing. And did we read all three? I mean, did you read all three?
56:41 I don't know if they're chapters, if they're books. I mean, how does that work when you're reading chapters like this? I guess I didn't include that part. No, that was all from the first book of Enoch. Okay. So out of the three, scholars considered the first book of Enoch to be the earliest. The other two were both written like 400 years after Christ. Okay. And the other one is much, much later than that. And so if there was a book that was around that the disciples leaned from, or if they quoted it and used some of it in the Bible, it could not have been the second or third book of Enoch. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. And I did read them, you know, 10 years ago or so. But even back then when my faith wasn't as strong, I kept stopping and being like, this is just weird. Like, there was just really, really weird things in there that back then I could tell.
57:42 Like, this doesn't sound like my God. It doesn't sound like the Bible. I just stopped reading it. But yeah, the first book is what lined up the most. But as we see, it still has a lot of faces that don't. Lastly, I did want to include, after I had read this and talked to you about presenting it, I found a really great video. And so I'm just going to highlight that real quick. There is a video by, this guy's name is Greg, and he does the Bible Block Box. Okay. Have you seen his channel? Yeah, I know Greg. I talk to him every once in a while. Cool, cool. Well, I watched his video, and he has a video that's about Enoch and 10 things you probably didn't know about it. Well, I watched it and took notes. He had a lot of the same things that I found. But he did have some. He did have some that I wanted to include.
58:41 So one of them that he found, there's an angel. Again, I'm not going to mention his name because it's creepy. But he was blamed for all of sin in Enoch. So I don't have the verse for it in Enoch, but it says, To him ascribe all sin, because he was like the originator. He was the first one to show mankind sin. But the Bible, for one, doesn't name demons. And then 1 John 3.8 speaks about how the devil has sinned from the beginning. So where the Bible notes Lucifer as the author of sin, the book of Enoch ascribes. You've probably heard his name. Azazel. That's probably the one name I've heard before reading Enoch. That's interesting. Yeah. There's that one. 1 John 3.8.
59:34 1 John 3.8. This one I thought. Yeah, go ahead. He that committed sin is of the devil. For the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Yeah, so the author of sin is Lucifer. And Enoch, it's just given a different name completely. A different angel. And so the next point that he made was really great. There is, I didn't write it down, but in Enoch 14, 21 through 22, it speaks about how angels cannot enter God's presence, good or bad. So no matter, you know, what their station, what their rank, angels in general cannot enter God's presence at all.
1:00:31 And then in Matthew 18.10. It talks about, maybe you should look that one up too. I don't know how that memorized. But it talks about how, you know, the children have angels and they're always seeing the face of God. All right. All right. Let me read it both. I actually brought up Enoch just to kind of read it too. 21 to 22 says, none of the angels could enter and could behold his face by reason of the magnificence and glory and no flesh could behold him. The flaming fire was aroused. The fire was around him and the great fire stood before him and none around could draw nigh to him. 10,000 times 10,000 stood before him. Yet he needed no counselor. But Matthew 18.10 says, take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones.
1:01:22 For I say unto you that in heaven, their angels do always behold the face of my father, which is in heaven. Yeah. Kind of the opposite. We have angels that are always beholding God's face versus all the angels who can't approach or even see God at all. It's a good point to bring out that I had missed. Fascinating. Yeah. He had a lot of the same ones, which I was thankful for. One of them though that I found really interesting was, this isn't even a contradiction with the Bible, but he says this is a contradiction with just science. Well, it does contradict the Bible too. And Enoch, I don't have the scripture for it, but it says Enoch mapped and counted all the stars because he was supposed to be God's scribe. So one of the jobs God had for him was to count and map all the stars. Well, Greg brings up in his video that there are 200,000 million stars in the Milky Way galaxy alone.
1:02:22 And then we have the scripture that says the stars cannot be counted and numbered. Wow. I don't know that I wrote that one down. There it is. I found the counted all the stars one. Book of Enoch, chapter 33, verse 1 through 4, the book of Enoch states that Enoch mapped and counted all the stars. I just wanted to get that so I could get the reference if I needed to come back and look at this video. Yeah. And then, you know, we have scripture that says the opposite. It says there's a star. They're unnumbered and that there's as many as the sand of the sea. And then he tells, you know, Abraham, try to count the stars. Ah, I found it. Because you can't. Jeremiah 33, 22. As the host of heaven cannot be numbered and the sands of the sea cannot be measured, so I will multiply the offspring of David my servant and the Levitical priest who minister to me.
1:03:25 That's about all I have. That's cool. That's interesting. I mean, I've never, again, I haven't read the book of Enoch, and I think it's always interesting. It's brought up so much, especially on this channel. I hear a lot of comments about the book of Enoch. Read the book of Enoch. You'll understand what's going on here. And I'm not sure because the first red flag for me was it didn't make it in the Bible. Why would we read this for new knowledge if God didn't guide the minds of these guys that put the Bible together and so many books that line up? And they didn't include this one? And you want to go find knowledge in this one? I'm a little concerned about it. And I don't want to sound too harsh because I think it's fascinating. There's a lot of people that are very convinced that the book of Enoch has the complete answers.
1:04:16 But I hold it suspect. And I think you have given good reason for that. Yeah. If there's time, I just want to share a quick testimony. So I'm not sure how we're doing on time here. Oh, go ahead. Yeah, we have whatever you need. Okay. So when I was reading this book, this is just a quick testimony as to why I stopped reading it. Enoch. It was years ago. Yes, the book of Enoch. So, again, I'd begun reading it because I was just curious because it's mentioned in the Bible. And when I started, it was like, yeah, it kind of fills in these gaps. It's interesting. Well, I was involved in a ministry with three other ladies.
1:05:03 And it was in downtown Anchorage at a soup kitchen and homeless shelter. And I was talking to a lady. And she had been labeled schizophrenic by the medical professionals. And she would come to our ministry. It was like a tea time. And so we would have tea in the beginning for like 20 minutes. And then whoever wanted to stay could participate in a Bible study. She would usually come to the tea. And then when the Bible study started, she'd be like, peace out. This isn't my thing. And we were just open and said, you know, if you want to come for the tea and the snacks, that's perfectly fine. You don't have to stay. No guilt. No pressure. You know, we're just glad to have some fellowship with you. And she was always very nice. But she never stayed for any of the Bible studies.
1:05:52 Well, one night was very different. So she stayed for the Bible studies. And I kind of talked with her a little bit. I had a little bit of a relationship with her. So she was comfortable with me. And when we were reading the scriptures, she kept laughing like uncontrollably and like muttering things to herself. And I kind of had some suspicions about her. And my thoughts just kind of range towards. I think she has some demonic influence on her life just from her mannerisms. And, you know, she just wanted nothing to do with the Bible. And so that night after the Bible study was over, I sat and talked with her for hours, hours. And I could tell you some crazy stories about her. But to stick with the Book of Enoch.
1:06:48 She started off by telling me that. The doctors. The doctors said that she was schizophrenic. But what that meant was that we just collect souls. And, you know, instantly I'm thinking of the story of Legion where there's not one demon, but there's many. And they refer to them with those specific pronouns. I know those pronouns are kind of thrown around all over now. But six years ago, it might have been longer than that. It was like six years ago. This wasn't a thing. So for her to say we. Instead of I kind of threw up my red flags immediately. Like, who am I talking with? I need to be careful here. And I was also just really intrigued. And my heart went out to this girl because she was about my age. So I sat there and I'm talking with her.
1:07:39 And she was just kind of telling me her life story. And I don't want to get. It's a long, long story. But I kept trying to bring it back to God. So I'd say. You know, it doesn't matter what happened in your life. How far you've gone astray. You can always come back to God. And she'd say, God, God, the father. And I was like, yeah. And she's like, well, I love God, the father. I would do anything to go back to him. And I was like, well, you can. The invitation is open. And this is what really. Weirded me out, to be honest. She said, no, we can't. And I was like, well, what do you mean? Why do you think you can't return to the father? And she said. Long ago, we made a pact.
1:08:26 And I'm one of the fold. And we knew when we made that pact that we could never return to the father. And even though we long to, we would do anything to come back to him. We're no longer allowed. And. I instantly was like, I've heard this before. Where have I heard this? And when I went home, I was telling my husband about it. And I was like, it's from the book of Enoch. And I'm like, how weird is that? Like, she's not quoting the Bible. But I could tell from that instance one. I mean, I knew that they were demonic. Forces toying with her from the story she told me before, but at that point, I'm like, I'm, I'm literally. You know, speaking to a demon here. But she like verbatim told the story from the fallen angels point of view.
1:09:12 In the book of Enoch that they're begging for forgiveness. They love the father. And they can't return. That made me stop reading the book. And for some people, it might be like, well, Hey, that's like legitimizing what the book of Enoch is saying. But while it's going through my head is. This is a demon telling me this story. Demons don't tell the truth. Why would I take their word for it? So it just blew my mind. A little bit more of that story. So I kept talking with her and I kept mentioning Jesus. And she was like, Jesus. Jesus. What's this? Jesus. It's not Jesus. It's he is us. She is us. I was like, what? She's like, yeah, we're all one. We all have the same spirit in all of us. And I never heard of. You know, the new age.
1:10:02 What is it? The. Stance of oneness or whatever that they. I forget what it's called, but same line of thinking. And so I just said, you mean Jesus Christ? And she flipped a switch and just started shaking and screaming and saying, I hate him. I hate him. I hate him. And I just kind of caught my breath and was like, oh, Lord. Quietly in my head, like protect me. I don't know what's going on. I got a little scared. And then she just stopped and looked down and composed herself and looked back up and completely changed the subject. And so at that point I was like, I think I need to leave. Like, I'm kind of done with this conversation. It's pretty clear that I'm not. Speaking with. Her. I'm speaking with. You know, those that call themselves. We. Wow. Yeah, I was. It was.
1:10:52 Crazy situation. But. I will say this. It really helped because in that ministry, we faced a whole lot of demonic forces. At that. Place. And I was trying to. Just help her. And I was trying to. Help her. And I was trying to. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. Help her. And then I was in that kind of. That was a lot of. Gracious thing. And yeah, I think that's. I think that's a lot of. That's a lot of things you're saying. Yeah. There was a lot of. You know, we were talking about things like. This is a. You know, I'm not a. I'm not a. I'm not a.
1:11:37 I'm not a. We were talking about this a few weeks ago. But you know. It's starting to happen. And so, this is. You know, we're probably in the middle of a. to share those stories with them, and I felt like their eyes just kind of opened to the reality of what we were up against in that ministry. But yeah, that's why I stopped reading the book of Enoch. That's crazy. Wow. It's a crazy story. You don't hear those stories very much. I mean, you hear them in the Bible, you hear them maybe in a strange mission story or mission spotlight, but it's, wow, wow. Yeah, I have honestly a ton of stories I could share from that ministry at the homeless shelter, but I think it's just because the enemy knew that we were trying to bring the light in, and he was trying so hard to scare us away. I want to try something. I want to talk to the audience for a second. If you are interested in hearing some of Wendy's stories, leave us a comment below. And let her know how much you appreciate her being on this channel. We really appreciate you, Wendy, and I really do appreciate you taking your time, your busy schedule with your kids, and your crazy life. I mean, we all got crazy lives. So taking a little bit of time out to tell the truth and show what you have learned, it is an honor, and thank you so much for being here. Yeah, thanks, Brad. I appreciate it, and this channel is amazing. So again, I'm just happy to come on and help when I can. Praise God. Let's have a little prayer, and we'll sign off. Father God, thank you so much for giving us time to go over this information.
1:13:19 Guide us and direct us and guide everyone out there. Give them wisdom. If someone is struggling with understanding this, guide them. Show them this week that what we have been shown is from you. We love you, God. Amen.