0:00 I arrived Friday evening at that camp meeting and there was a guest speaker from that particular denomination and he was from the church headquarters he said instead of just telling you what meditation is I would like to just practice it with you and show you what it is and I'd like each of you now to close your eyes relax put your hands on your knees with the palms facing upwards now this is total kundalini yoga welcome back to strange normal my name is Brad Burnham we talk about the stranger things that happen in your normal life to give you a biblical understanding of what's going on and there's going to be a lot going on so hit that little subscribe button hit that bell icon because you're going to want to be informed immediately when things like this happen and a lot of our stuff comes from what we call the strange normal research group it's a discord group that we all get on and we all pay attention to and we all get to know each other and we all get to know each other and we all get to know each other and we all get to know each other and we all get to know each other and attention to what's happening we got so much going on in that group right now we only talk about the tip of the iceberg if you want to be a part of that group you can join our patreon go to patreon.com slash strange normal tonight we have the second part of will baron he's he was a a new age priest that was being developed by joel cool which was his demon that would come to him and teach him about different things very interesting episode you don't want to miss part one of that if you haven't seen it already but this is part two if you haven't seen part one go back into my channel you can find will baron and the the amazing video part one that he did on this under the same image it has the same similar thumbnail as this one without further ado let's get right into it this particular morning for me it was a vision he stood there he told me that he had appeared to let me know that i'm going to be a part of this and i'm going to be a part of this and i'm going to be a part i had been selected to be one of his personal disciples and should i accept this offer of personal discipleship he would be my master and he would then train me for a leadership position in this new age movement he wow neuralysis actually channeled that eventually i was destined to work for the united nations organization to help bring in the new world order which would be the political aspect of this whole thing and i was able to do that and i was able to do that and i was able to do that and i was able to do that and i was able to do that and it has a political component and it has a political component which will be based upon a one world government based upon the authority of the united nations organization and that wow christ wait this this took a twist i i haven't heard your whole testimony i've heard bits and pieces from chris lang's amazing documentary on this called beware of angels but but wait i don't think that was included in here so i i didn't realize i mean we all surmise as christians that the new world order is going to bring in this this new age movement but did did you just say that you were being prepared to help with this can you repeat that yes uh mural isis um channeled that it was the goal the plan of the ascended masters that eventually i would work for the united nations organization now alice bailey's organization that publishes these books they have an office in the united nations organization they're an official ngo non-government organization that works in harmony with the united nations organization um one of the undersecretaries of the united nations organization was a student of the alice bailey teachings openly so now i was never ever allowed to tell anyone that I was a disciple of Joël Coole, not even at the Findhorn New Age community where I worked. One time my ascended master later sent me to Findhorn, which has been described as the Vatican City of the New Age. This is a very large commune in northern Scotland, and it is a major New Age commune. Most New Agers all over the world have the goal at some point in their life to visit Findhorn. There's about somewhere like 600 people are all part of this New Age village. It was
4:54 based on spiritualism. The founder Eileen Caddy and her husband Peter Caddy, and then there was Dorothy McLean. Those three people all practiced transcendental meditation. They communicated with spirits, but mainly Eileen Caddy communicated with a spirit. I believe it was the spirit identified himself as, I think of the name of the spirit, something like unlimited love or something like that. But yes, it was a muralis channel that eventually the goal was for me to work for the United Nations organization. Wow. And to help bring in the political side of this new world order. The whole teaching is that the Christ, now I have to differentiate between the Christ of the Bible and the Christ of the New Age. The New Age believes that planet Earth is destined to be led by an ascended master who holds the office of the Christ. But at the time I was involved in the New Age, it was not Jesus. Jesus was not the top leader of the 49 ascended masters. Walco was one of these 49. And of the 49, there were seven leading masters. They were known as Kohans of the rays. This is all esoteric language. Jesus was one of the Kohans of the rays. He was the Kohan, I believe it was of the sixth ray, if I'm not mistaken. Saint Germain was Kohan of the seventh ray. And I used to channel, Saint Germain quite a lot. But these are demons. These are demonic spirits masquerading under the name Saint Germain, masquerading under the name Jesus. And at the time, the office of the Christ was held by a so-called ascended master who was called Lord Maitreya. His full title was Lord Maitreya, the Christ. Maitreya comes from the Buddhist religion. And we were, we were told that he will appear physically in the world, or whoever holds the office of the Christ at the time will appear physically in the world. And it will be the same thing, the same event as the second coming of Jesus. But it will occur a little different than the way traditions of Christianity are teaching. We used to emphasize that there are a lot of traditions in Christianity that were not actually true.
7:46 That it was misunderstanding of teachings because Christians didn't understand the realm of the occult or the esoteric knowledge. Esoteric simply means hidden knowledge that is privy to a certain select group, i.e. the group that were disciples of the ascended masters. And it was taught that when the Christ appears, he will appear in the world with great charisma, great authority, great dignity, and great power. And it was taught that when the Christ appears, he will appear in the world with great charisma, great authority, great dignity, and great power. And he will be the leader of all of the world's religions. And we were teaching that by the time he appears, there will be a one world religion that will be basically a new age version of Christianity. But it will amalgamate or integrate all of the world's religions into one, this new world religion that will coincide with the beginning of this new age of Aquarius. The Christian age was the age of Pisces. And that was over now when we were now transitioning into this new millennium, which was actually going to be 2,000 years long, the new age of Aquarius. And that the Christ was going to lead all of the world's religions, but he was also going to be a political leader. He was going to lead the world's governments. And his center for world government was going to be the United Nations organization. And we were teaching that the Christ, when he appears, he will appear in the world with great charisma, great authority, great authority, and great power. And it was taught that when the Christ appears, he will appear in the world with great charisma, great authority, and great power.
9:16 And it was taught that when the Christ appears, he will appear in the world with great charisma, great authority, and great power. And he will appear suddenly, just the way Jesus appeared to his disciples in the upper room, he will suddenly materialize, for example, in that great big auditorium and the United Nations headquarters, and he will appear at the podium, and he will have great charisma, great dignity, great authority. I remember Muriel telling me that when she was visited by the Christ, that she said, if people think that the Christ is a weedy weakling, They're mistaken. He possesses great power, great authority, great dignity, great charisma. He has superb oratory abilities and he will issue proclamations and everyone will know because of his great authority and power that this is the second coming of Jesus. And we were taught that when he appears on the auditorium, there will be mists or clouds that will envelope his feet and cover the whole platform.
10:20 And this is what is meant in the scriptures when it says that Jesus will appear in the clouds of heaven. We were told these clouds are not going to be the clouds up in the sky. Don't look up in the clouds of the sky for Jesus to come. He's not going to come that way in his second coming. He's going to appear in these worlds. The world auditoriums and the platform is all going to be covered in these vaporous mists. And that's what it means by coming on the clouds. And so who was teaching this? This is what Muriel was teaching. This is what I would be realized is the founder of our New Age Center. And I was channeling the same messages as well. I mean, I eventually I was told to leave Los Angeles and go back to the United Kingdom. I was not told by my spirit.
11:09 Well, cool. What was going to happen when I got there? I was told that I just had to be obedient, just quit my job and go back to England and then wait for further instructions. And I was then spent several days in a hotel in London, sitting around waiting for the instructions to come. I was practicing my meditation, but I wasn't hearing any voices telling me what to do. And finally, I did hear my spirit guide. Well, cool. Speak to me after a few days. And. I was he told me to join several New Age organizations or at least attend their meetings. I joined the Theosophical Society there. They had an astrology lodge. He wanted me to study astrology more deeply. And I was a member of the Astrology Lodge of London, which was a Theosophical institution. And I visited several different New Age centers in London.
12:03 And then finally, I got instructions to go to Findhorn in northern Scotland. This. As I mentioned, is a big commune, like 600 people live in that commune and they get thousands of visitors each year visiting Findhorn, taking different classes and workshops and involved in different programs. And I worked for Findhorn Press originally as a guest worker, a volunteer worker. And finally, I joined the community. I went through an orientation program and was became an employee then of Findhorn Press. And then I was part of the board of directors of the New Age movement for the New Year's Day. And I was part of the board of directors of the New Year's Day. And I wrote a book about the coming of Christ and all about this new age movement and the new spirituality that is out there. That's incredible. That's incredible. And so that's.
12:54 As far as I remember, there was a point where this whole thing kind of. Came to a pinnacle point where you said something's got to give and they were requesting you to give money, is that correct? Yes. This. That was when I entered what I call the new age nightmare. After I worked for Findhorn Press as a volunteer and then as an actual staff member for probably around five months, I believe it was. And then in 1984, beginning of 1984, one morning while I was at Findhorn, I was waiting for my sleep and I just knew I had to leave.
13:47 What had happened, the spirit guide that I had, this was Joël Kool, implanted a thought form into my brain while I was asleep. I didn't act. This is a latent message that you don't receive in a visionary dream. And I had those. I had dreams that were visions as well. But this is not that mechanism. This is when you awake, you're aware of the instruction. It's there. It's very powerful. And I knew I had to leave Findhorn and go back to Los Angeles to resume further training at the Lighted Way New Age Center. I was a professional psychic by profession. She actually also had, she was a licensed psychologist. She had an official California license for psychology counseling.
14:46 And that's one of the reasons I was attracted to her because I had been involved in psychology counseling. And I realized when I saw her license on the frame on the wall that this is no dreamy cheat mystic. this is a genuine educated lady and of course that made the deception even greater because I immediately had more trust in her than I otherwise would have had but I just knew I had to leave and it was difficult explaining to the leadership of Fyndhorn why suddenly I had to move because I was forbidden to tell people I was a disciple of Joël Coole it's interesting nobody knew there was one person at Fyndhorn actually my master told me to tell him I was a disciple of Joël Coole because Joël Coole wanted to recruit this one person to be his personal disciple but that was an exception no one knew my parents brother sister no one knew that I was a disciple of Joël Coole except Muriel Isis she knew because her spirit guide who was Kutumi originally the master Kutumi she had told he had told Muriel that I was a disciple of Joël Coole and she knew that and during channeling we used to have worship services on Sunday mornings at the lighted way during worship services sometimes Muriel would channel information indicating I was a disciple and other disciples present heard that so they some some also some of the disciples or students at the lighted way knew also but no one knew my where I worked no one knew and at Fyndhorn I was not allowed to tell anyone I even had a private meeting with Eileen Caddy the founder of Fyndhorn and I was not even allowed to tell Eileen Caddy that I was a disciple I just told the management there the leadership that my personal guidance I used that expression my personal guidance instructed me that I had to leave and return back to the United States back to Los Angeles it was embarrassing you know to tell people this but I did and I remember the the personnel director he said oh I understand you know I understand that but others felt it was very strange that I was suddenly leaving because I was a disciple of Eileen Caddy and I was not allowed to tell anyone I was a disciple really enjoyed Fyndhorn it's a beautiful place in a rural area of northern Scotland I mean it's a beautiful exciting place to live they've all these guests coming in you're meeting people from all over the world different followers of various gurus and different leaders of new age centers periodically visit Fyndhorn it was incidentally the location of the third sitting of the world wilderness congress which is a political group we had the there from the United States, one of the secretaries, the secretary of wildlife, agriculture and fisheries came to Findhorn and gave a presentation at Findhorn and some other world leaders, the deputy prime minister of Australia came to Findhorn. We have a auditorium there, a beautiful auditorium called the Universal Hall, and he gave a presentation there.
18:17 Findhorn is very well known globally for its activism and environmentalism. What I found strange, though, was the main core group, which was the main operating group of Findhorn, about half of them were smokers. I used to find that very interesting, how they would promote environmentalism and we need to get rid of toxic gases and toxic chemicals in their environment. They were all smoking away. One of them who I actually lived, he lived in one of the, Findhorn, as well as the main community, they have their own two mansions at the time, beautiful mansions, Georgian mansions in the area, and they also own Station House, which used to be a railway station that was converted into a resident safe for people to stay in that were visiting Findhorn. One of the guys at Findhorn was a chain smoker. I mean, he was just constantly... He was constantly smoking. Very strange, because this reveals the satanic nature. This is not really of God. So you always find some strange things, people addicted, because it is not God's power. Yes, they claim, you know, to be having peace and claim health, but often it's not the reality. So I was told then to leave. So I arrived back in Los Angeles. I got my old job back. I was working as an engineer. I was working as an engineer. I was working as an engineer. I was working as an engineer for a company that manufactured industrial refrigeration and air conditioning, custom-built equipment. Got my old job back. My spirit guide told me that I would get my job back. I went to visit Muriel. I had a private reading with her, a private audience with her, if you will. And she said, yes, the masters wanted you to go to the UK for 12 months. You had some old energies that you needed to deal with, some old stuff. You needed to be able to do some things. You needed to become mature. You needed to go to Findhorn and receive training there. But the masters wanted you back here in the lighted way to resume your duties. And I became the senior board member of the lighted way. And what happened about maybe two months, it was just a couple of months after getting back. This is now about 1985. Actually, it was 1984.
20:45 Yeah, 1984. One morning, well, let me go back. I resumed classes at the lighted way, attending different classes, astrology and numerology, holistic health classes, and the main discipleship training class and different workshops, numerology workshops, different things that we were doing. And we used to hold psychic fairs. And I used to be the host for psychic fairs. But one evening during one of these classes, midweek classes, Muriel made an announcement to the students, small group of students. She said, the master, Katumi, has informed me that we need to start an advertising promotion at this center. We need to place advertisements in different magazines, especially the more the alternative lifestyle magazines in Los Angeles, like the LA Weekly and the LA Reader and advertise our classes. We need to get a lot more new students coming to the center. And this, I've been told that the advertising program is going to cost $7,000. And I'm now inviting you to make donations. So just meditate on this and send me donations. So I went back to where I was living, to the apartment where I was living. And I thought about this. And I figured well, I had exhausted all my financial resources. I didn't have any money in the bank. And I figured with my paycheck going in that next that, you know, next week, I could probably afford five hundred dollars.
22:26 Now, this is 1984, like five hundred dollars would be like fifteen hundred dollars today. And I thought that's what I can afford. So I wrote out a check for fifteen hundred dollars and mailed it to Muriel. And the next morning might have been two mornings later in my practice of transcendental meditation that I've told you was mandatory. The spirit guide, my personal spirit guide, Jwoku, congratulated me that I had made this donation. But he said, it's not enough. You need to now send another donation. This time, another donation. I believe it was five hundred dollars, another five hundred dollars. And I replied, I said, well, where am I going to get the money from? And he said, well, use your MasterCard, you know, a credit card.
23:23 And I thought, well, that's strange. That's really bizarre. I thought the new age was all about peace and prosperity, not about going into debt on credit card. And. Well, I figured, you know, five hundred dollars. It's not the end of the world, you know, I could afford it. I mean, I worked as an engineer, so I so I was obedient. I sent the money as a cheque and then I went to the ATM using my credit card and drew out cash and deposited that in my bank account. And I thought, that's fine. Well, about three days or so later. In my morning meditation, Jwalkul again congratulated me on my obedience and he said, but that's not enough money. I need you now to send immediately another cheque, this time for a thousand dollars.
24:23 And when I heard that, I, I cringed and I immediately quit that meditation. And I was there was a fear, a deep fear inside of me. What am I getting involved in? Supposing. I send this cheque for a thousand dollars. Is it going to end there? Where's this going to go? What's going to happen next? And I also thought to myself, well, maybe this is not Jwalkul that's speaking to me. It's quite a new age. We believed in fairies and hobgoblins and other discarnate entities. And maybe it was somebody that's died and their soul has not yet passed into the spirit planes. It's still hovering around the earth plane. And maybe it's just playing games. Maybe this voice is not Jwalkul because I mentioned it's a voice that speaks through your voice of conscience.
25:16 It's not like some other person with a different accent speaking to you. It's, but it's very clear communication and it's very distinct in terms of the logic and what it is saying, but it is not a distinct voice with an accent. Like I have a British accent, for example, it's not like that. So I went to my job. I was very sad and concerned, I had anxiety and I was afraid, where is this leading? Well, in my job, I couldn't work. I, my mind was constantly focused on this command to send now this, this new check of a thousand dollars.
26:04 And I was, I figured. I'm not sure where this voice is coming from. I don't think it's my master and I'm not going to send it. That was it. But I couldn't work. There was no peace in my heart to work. And then the voice started speaking to me and it said, this is the voice of Jwalkul. I am your master. You agreed when you became my personal disciple that you were going to turn your will over to the will of God. And you know that I am connected directly with God. And. That. That I, in my commands, I am, I am expressing God's will for your life. Why are you rebelling? Quit this rebellion. And I also started to feel depressed and the voice spoke to me and said, well, you were feeling depressed because you were grieving the spirit of God within you.
27:07 What we would call in Christianity, the Holy spirit, but it wasn't. The real Holy spirit. This is a systemic spirit, right? You were grieving the spirit of God by your disobedience. You will be wise and smart to be obedient and just do what we tell you. Well, at the end of the day, I'm still feeling depressed. And I think thought to myself, well, you know, a thousand dollars, which today's money would be $3,000. It's not the end of the world. Um, I I'm foolish to be living in this. Depression without the spirit of God in me. And I decided to be obedient. And at that time, I also had these credit card checks, you know, you get them in the mail. If you have credit card account, they send you these, these checks, which is a form of loan. You can ride out as much money up to the limit of your credit line on the credit card.
28:00 And instead of, and I was always reluctant to use these credit card checks. I preferred if I needed cash, just go to the ATM and get cash out. So I used this credit card check is a MasterCard check, brought out a check for a thousand dollars, drove to the nearest mailbox. As soon as the envelope with the check in it dropped in that slot in the mailbox, the depression lifted instantly. I just felt fine, just felt normal. And I thought, well, the Holy Spirit is back in me now. I'm fine. Well, two days later in my morning. Meditation is well cool, congratulated me on my obedience. So we're smart, but it's not enough money this time. Man, I need you now to send another check this time for $2,000.
28:54 He doubled it. A shiver of fear struck me. And I decided to immediately quit that meditation. It wasn't decision. I just quit that meditation immediately. That was. My impulse in reaction to this voice. I didn't want to hear any more voices. And in deep sadness and fear drove to my job. I got to the office. I couldn't work at all. This command now to send the $2,000 was very powerful. Couldn't work at all. And now Joel cool is speaking to me and he's hounding me. He's literally demanding that I send this money said you agree. To be a disciple of the Masters.
29:44 Why are you rebelling? Quit your rebellion immediately. Now when I was a teenager, I became quite rebellious. I used to be a biker. I had a motorcycle and on the gas tank. I had Road Rebel written on the gas tank on both sides. I'd renamed this motorcycle Road Rebel as I would at times. I could be a rebel and I was now rebelling against the master. And I said to myself, I am not going to send this money. The New Age is all about prosperity and peace. Not about depression and going into debt to fund the New Age. I'm not going to send this money and I was afraid what am I getting getting involved in him? If I send this $2,000, what's going to happen next? And I started to feel depression. The spirits telling me you're feeling depressed because you are rebelling against God and you and this depression is the.
30:40 Emptiness of life without the Spirit of God in you by about 11 o'clock in the morning. I had not only felt depressed. I felt nauseous. I mean, I was really feeling nauseous. I felt ill. I felt sick and I thought to myself boy. I have two choices and after lunch, I realized strongly. I have two choices either I commit suicide because the depression was so intense. Oh man, so in a horrible horrible and I had struggled with depression in my teenage years and in my early 20s that motivated me to reach out to self-help psychology books and eventually have psychology counseling sessions and therapy psychotherapy to deal with this thing and it was like I'm now back in this depression. So I decided. I have two choices. And of course, I chose I'm still alive. I chose the second option to be obedient. So I went home wrote out a check a MasterCard check for three for $2,000 went to the mailbox deposited that check in the mailbox the instant the check went into the mailbox the depression instantly left me the nauseous sickly feeling ill feeling left me instantly see this is how Satan's human agents can claim to perform Miracle healings to because you've got a problem the demons manipulate your energy those that spirit guide was a demon of Satanic Angel that was beaming depression energy.
32:21 He was beaming sickness energy upon me. So I experienced what felt like depression. They was depression and I experienced what felt like nausea sickness in my stomach and this was lifted immediate when this energy. This depression and sickness energy was this withdrawn by the demon because of my obedience the energy was lifted. I felt fine just felt normal just felt fine. And well, few days later this Joel Kuhl came by congratulated me and he said well, we need another check this time and interesting enough. They were playing music in my ears. I could hear they could plant music. Songs pop song and they were playing the music. Take it to the limit. Take it to the limit. One more time. They told me to send another check this time for $3,000.
33:19 And at first I was reluctant and they were playing this song. Take it to the limit. Take it to the limit one more time and I knew what that was. That was the limit of my line of credit. Wow, my credit card, which was $7,000 and I didn't really resist. That much. I decided what's the point? You know, I saw the suicide and I didn't want to commit suicide. And I felt this was God wanting me to do that. And the the spirit guide was comparing me to Joe to Jonah in the Bible. You're saying you're like Jonah. You're resisting God's command. You know, Jonah was commanded to go to Nineveh instead. He took a ship to go to Tarshish or Spain or somewhere. Wherever it Tarshish was going and actually Tarshish.
34:11 I think is in Asia Minor, but whatever he was commanded to go to Nineveh. And he went in the opposite direction on a ship and he says you're like Jonah. And this was so deceptive because you know, I felt this was truly of God. This all new ages of God. And so I the end of that afternoon. I went home and I wrote out a check them for $3,000 and mailed it. And the voice was gone. It didn't come back because I was at the limit of my line of credit. But several months later, the voice came back and I was I was by the time I was rescued from that terrible deception, which was about two years later. That was in 1987. I was in debt on credit cards. I don't know something like $10,000 or something. So how many times is a lot more, you know that in though for today, you know, because of inflation over the last 35 years or so today or 30.
35:14 It was about 35 years ago that time, you know, that would be the equivalent of maybe 15,000. Well more maybe $18,000 debt on credit cards to fund the lighted way. New Age Center sending Muriel these checks. So how many times did they come back to you? Well, that was the end of the forced donation. I would get instructions thereafter that I would get instructions. Eventually. I was sending Muriel $1,000 every month when she moved to Texas. Muriel was told by her spirit guide to go to Texas to bring the knowledge of mystical Christianity to the Bible Belt. So I was left behind in Los Angeles and told to start my own ministry, which I called the light of the way light of the way it was called instead of lighted way. Light of the way. So I started a ministry but it wasn't it was about six months later when I was rescued from that whole deception.
36:15 But when by the time I was rescued I was in debt to several thousand dollars on my credit cards. I never you know, I mean I eventually paid them off but but it wasn't the money. It was other things that I was told to do that got very nerve-wracking people can read about all this in my book. Yeah deceived by the New Age sold by Amazon. You can get it on Amazon how you how you found Christianity and you came back is probably I didn't find Christianity. No Brad. I didn't find Christianity. God reached out to me. My parents were conservative Christians and they'd been praying for me for years. I was involved in total about 16 years and New Age paraphernalia 12 years deeply involved and five years as a disciple of the master's wall cool followed by two years of a new master a new spirit guide who claimed to be Jesus.
37:16 Wow. Jesus Christ Jesus the Christ and yeah, it was it was a nightmare of slavery. It went once the demons knew you're totally controlled by the demonic spirit. Then they I experienced for two. Two years that knew what I call the New Age nightmare. It was an absolute nightmare. It's really interesting because I guess they accomplished two things. Number one. They got their donations from your credit card for number two. They put you in debt. So you would have to rely on your work in the New Age movement to to live. You were kind of well, actually I would I worked for Fyndhorn for about six months, but most of that was as a volunteer.
38:05 But when I came back to Los Angeles, I all the time worked. I still worked as an engineer. Okay. Yes, I was a what you call became what's called the lay priest. It's almost I took various of celibacy when the spirit guide appeared to me back in 1981. Actually the prior day. I had took various of celibacy. These were personal values of celibacy to join the Hindu priesthood. I knew this was the Hindu priesthood. There was no. I mean, I knew what I was joining and the priesthood of the Hindu religion is a celibate priesthood. And so I joined the Hindu priesthood for training as a priest, you a Hindu priest, but within the environment of Western occultism and and the New Age spirituality. So I was never a Hindu priest in the sense of wearing long robes and going to Hindu temples.
39:00 That's not what I was part of, but I knew that what we were practicing, practicing was Hindu based. Yeah, it was based on Hinduism. It was called Raja Yoga. The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali was our main textbook that we were following, which was an Alice Bailey book, which was a westernized version of the book written by the Hindu Guru Patanjali. We were more of a Western version, but I knew I was part of the Hindu priesthood and took various of celibacy. And so what happened to me in 1987 was I didn't find Christianity. God answered the prayers of my parents who were dedicated sincere Christians and God reached out to me and rescued me in a miracle. In a sense, I was rescued from that terrible deception. So all praise to God. I didn't find Christian. I was I was a counterfeit Christian. Um, in 1985, shortly after I was forced to donate those funds, I went to one of the evening classes at the Lighted Way.
40:15 The class was given by Muriel, and I can't remember if it was an astrology class or what it was now, but she, the start of the class, she stood up and she said, I have an important announcement to make. Our Lighted Way New Age Center is going to undergo a major transformation. As a result of an experience I had just earlier this week. She then described that experience and she said that she was staying at the Brentwood Holiday Inn. For those that know Los Angeles, it's a round tower hotel right next to the 4R5 freeway in Brentwood there, very near Bel Air. And she was staying in a hotel. And in the middle of the night, she said, I was awaiting from my sleep and there stood right in the middle of the hotel room was a man.
41:14 It was over six feet tall. He possessed an aura of great dignity, power and authority. And he said to me, get down on your knees, get down on your knees. I am Jesus Christ and I am going to heal you. Muriel then told us that she got out of her bed. Got down on her knees in front of this man. He put his hands upon her head, gave her a blessing, told her he was going to heal her. And that he had appeared to rescue her from some of the deception and false teachings in the Alice Bailey movement. Wow. And he said, I am Jesus and I am the Christ. Master Kutumi is no longer here. Is no longer the Christ. I, Jesus, am the Christ. I am the leader of the hierarchy of masters.
42:11 I am the son of God. I am King of Kings and Lord of Lords. So was this the deception or was this a, how do you, I mean, you really got to test the spirits on this one. Well, is it possible that Jesus could appear to a new age, mystic, and professional, psychic? I mean, Jesus appeared to the Apostle Paul. He was a follower of Satan. He was one of the Pharisees. He was persecuting the Christians. He was throwing them into jail. He was trying to have them condemned to death. Jesus appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus while he was a disciple of Satan. Could Jesus appear to a new age, dedicated, and sincere ladies? Muriel was a very dedicated, sincere lady.
43:08 As a child, she had been brought up in the new thought movement. She was part of what is called the mind sciences. She was part of that whole Christian science movement, and which claims to be Christian. But then, she got into the Alice Bailey Theosophy teachings. Is it possible that Jesus could do this? Well, let me tell you what happened. Muriel said that after this, Jesus pronounced this blessing upon her, and gave her the message that she was now to be a follower of Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus Christ, and that our New Age Center was going to have to change into a new, into a church. We were going to become a Christian organization. Now, he said that Muriel, you are going to have to become a born-again Christian. Muriel said that after giving this message, this person then turned around and walked through the solid locked door of the hotel room, the bed, the door, walked through that solid locked door, and just disappeared into the corridor.
44:26 Let me tell you that our New Age Center was changed, into what some would consider a Christian church. We regarded ourselves to be a Christian church organization. We were now not channeling any more ascended masters. We were now having Bible study. In fact, I have here a copy of the very Bible that I purchased, because we were having midweek Bible study. This is the Bible that I had, the Holy Bible, the NIV version that I bought, in a Christian bookstore, and we were having Sunday morning worship services. We were singing Christian hymns. We were now praying, and praying in the name of Jesus, praying to Jesus, and in the name of Jesus. We were now calling the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, instead of just using a more generic phrase like the Spirit.
45:29 We actually called ourselves, New Age Christians initially. Let me tell you, we didn't stop channeling. We were still practicing meditation, but we were calling it Christian meditation, and there are books out there in Christian bookstores, that promote Christian meditation. This is one of the main ones. It was written by Morton T. Kelsey, who was an Anglican priest in psychology. He was a psychology professor, at a university in Japan, and he wrote this book, The Other Side of Silence, A Guide to Christian Meditation. Let me tell you this. Christian meditation as in on the word, or Christian Transcendental Meditation? This is Christian Transcendental Meditation. This book, which is published by Paulist Press, sort of a very liberal Catholic publishing house, Paulist Press.
46:28 This book is about 80% traditional mainstream New Age mystical teachings. Okay. I think I know what's going on here. Merged with about 20% questionable, contemplative Christian spirituality. So like the Constantine thing happened here, where the paganism got baptized into Christianity, and amalgamated into this new. So the reason why I ask this question, let me just jump into this real quick, because I just did, a video. It hasn't been produced yet for Little Light Studios. It's not out on their channel yet, but it's on this guy. This is new information in the last two weeks. It came out. It's on this guy. He was a Satanist priest, co-founder of the South African Satanist Church. His name was Rayan Swigler.
47:19 And what's interesting about it, is that he said that he was going, he had done a bunch of interviews, and the eight people that were part of his Satanist Church, that had established this thing, in South Africa, they said, we've done all this stuff, but we want you to go ahead and do some, some private rituals, and see what you see, and we'll pay you to do these, so that we can further our influence on South Africa. And so he did these, and he said, I got halfway through my first presentation, and Jesus appeared in front of me, and told me he was going to save me from what is going on here. So a lot of Christianity, a lot of YouTubers, are taking this, and he is just full on talking Christianese, the whole time on all these podcasts. But I found something that's very interesting throughout this whole thing. One of the podcasts, he goes in and he says this, he says, I've been having continued conversations with Jesus every night after that. And just as you were talking, you and me, and the things Christ is teaching me, is that we were, all once divine.
48:35 And I'm like, Bing, that's not what Jesus taught. And he, then he would say, wrong thing after wrong thing after wrong thing. He would say, this is what the true religion is. And it makes me wonder, I don't know, maybe what, what, what she experienced was true Jesus. But if she's giving out transcendental meditation and calling it Christianity, I'm, I'm wondering, do you hear me? Absolutely. Yes. I no longer was a disciple of Joel cool. Muriel told me that, you now also will become a disciple of Jesus. And I was still practicing transcendental meditation, the same Kundalini serpent power ritual that we had. We had a certain visualization ritual, what's called creative imagery and visualization.
49:28 It was my meditation was always preceded by, uh, uh, imagined ritual, imagining golden light coming into the base of the spine to energize this Kundalini energy, which would rise up through the spine, through the different chakras and cascade out of the crown chakra, the top of the head and energize the third eye center of mystical vision. I was all my practicing practices, mystical practices with the same that they used to be. The only difference was that now, the spirit guide that was speaking to me, instead of speaking to me under the identity of Joel, cool was speaking to me under the identity of Jesus Christ. We were still practicing this channeling, which is a new name for mediumship. But instead of channeling the ascended masters, such as Saint Germain, master Moria, or master Joel, cool or master to me, or in the early days, we were channeling Lord, my tray of the, Christ, but we were teaching.
50:32 He's gone off now somewhere else in the universe. He's no longer on planet Earth. And we were teaching that the head of the hierarchy of masters is Jesus. He is now the Christ. Yes, we were having Bible study classes like on a Tuesday evening, for example, but on Thursday evenings, we still had astrology classes. We were still teaching holistic health, but we were now Christian. Ising the language. Yes, we were having Sunday morning worship services, but as part of the worship, we were still channeling the channeling now Jesus Christ and channeling the Lord. God Almighty Yahweh. We were claiming to channel Yahweh claiming to channel the Holy Spirit. Who was this person that appeared to Jesus in that Brentwood Holiday Inn hotel room?
51:28 I was to subsequently, to discover that it was the other Jesus. Now, Brad, are you aware or your viewers aware that there are two Jesus Christ? There isn't one Jesus. There are two Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul in second Corinthians chapter 11. He warns about the other Jesus. Let me turn to it. Oh, I know where you're going with this. Okay, for a second. I was like, what? Yeah, I know where you're going in second Corinthians chapter 11 verse 4. Paul here is talking about some of the apostasy occurring in that early church in Corinth. And what is the modern country of Greece? And he says there for if someone comes to you that talking about false Apostles, if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the, Jesus, we preach now, this is the NIV version.
52:33 So it's very clear. Paul is telling us there is another Jesus and that other Jesus has Apostles. They're false Apostles, but they are they are claiming to teach about Jesus. So if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus, we preached. So there's a difference here. The Jesus that Paul preached is his teachings are all recorded in the epistles. And the teachings of Jesus are recorded in the Gospels and recorded in the book of Revelation. And or if you receive a different spirit from the one you receive, that's the Holy Spirit that was poured out at Pentecost. So connected with the other Jesus, you have a different spirit, but there is a spirit and it's a powerful spirit and it can mimic in great intensity. The true, true power of the real Holy Spirit.
53:32 And that Paul continues or a different gospel from the one you expected. So connected with the other Jesus, you have a different gospel. For example, in my beach ministry at Venice Beach. Now when Muriel was told by her, Jesus to move to Dallas Fort Worth to introduce a knowledge of mystical Christianity to the Bible Belt. I was left behind in Los Angeles and, the lighted way disciples. We were all told we had to just rely on our own, you know, Jesus now to lead us where Jesus would lead us and I was inspired. I was told I was ordered to start a beach ministry on Venice Beach on the boardwalk there and, I had a stand and the big picture of Jesus with some very provocative words on it. And this attracted a lot of attention. The wording was, if you are waiting for Jesus to come, you are wasting your time. That was the words at the top of the big poster with a picture of Jesus on it. Then underneath it said, because I can tell you where he is.
54:42 So people would all come round and I'd sometimes have a crowd around me wanting to know, well, where is Jesus? And my message was, well, Jesus is actually inside of you and the way you communicate with Jesus is through scriptures. Okay, but that is, 2000 years obsolete. You need to now know what Jesus is telling you right today. You need present truth from Jesus. And the way you get present truth is through the practice of Christian meditation. Like this 80% Eastern mystical meditation with 20% Roman Catholic, questionable mysticism from Ignatius Leola thrown in there to make it appeal to Roman Catholics, because this was published by, Roman Catholic publishing house. And so we were teaching how you know, Jesus, how you have intimacy with Jesus is through the Holy Spirit. Now, I used to tell people didn't Jesus say that the kingdom of God is within you?
55:45 Well, actually, that's not a correct translation of the Greek. It's really among you. Jesus said the kingdom of God is me. It's me and I am right here among you. And this is the kingdom of them. Thomas asked Jesus shows the father. Jesus said you have you not seen me? You know, if you see me, you have seen the father. Jesus is the kingdom of heaven. He is the king. And so we were manipulating scripture to make it compatible with our New Age teachings. Yes, we had Bible study classes at the lighted way, but we were not studying the Gospels. We were studying very, very obscure passages from the book of Ezekiel, and we were giving them an esoteric or a secret or hidden meaning that was compatible with New Age teachings.
56:39 And we were New Age Christians. We had self-identified to other New Ages as New Age Christians. This is when the word New Age was still very popular, which no longer is, but to other Christians, we would, I would never say, New Age Christian. I was told my, my spirit guide who claimed to be Jesus would tell me never tell these Christians that you're a New Ager. They will misunderstand. They will promote hostility and negativity. You push them away. My main mission besides the Venice boardwalk minister, which was on the weekends during the week, my main mission and Sunday mornings was to infiltrate regular evangelical and mainline Christian churches and try to make friends with pastors and with. People that I would be connected with by the spirit who would be liberal Christians who were open to Christian meditation. My goal was to start and that was what I was told to do. Start Christian meditation groups in these churches.
57:42 And one of the regular churches that I would visit was Hope Chapel in Hermosa Beach. It's quite a well-known church in evangelical Christianity in Los Angeles. And I have nothing negative against that church. And there was, it's quite a large church. It was contemporary worship. And I met one of the pastors on the staff was from the United Kingdom. So immediately we became good friends and I started sharing with him my practice of Christian meditation. I don't have a copy of books that but there was a foster Richard Foster wrote a book celebration of discipline. The last chapter in that book is teaching Christian meditation. In the first spring of that book though. It was very New Age. It was very occult meditation ritual, but but a lot of Christians protested because that book was targeting the Christian bookstore Market a lot of conservative Christians protested.
58:42 And so Richard Foster changed it and he Christianized that chapter, but I was saying, oh, you know what I'm practicing is the same thing that is in Richard Foster's book that kind of thing and and, and this one pastor at Oak Chapel invited me to start a meditation Christian meditation group in his church. And I told him I said this Christian meditation used to be practiced by the Apostles, but during the Dark Ages and during the Inquisition and stuff, it got pushed out of the church and we need to now recover the meditation that was practiced by the Apostles and practiced by God's prophets of all because, the word meditation is in the Bible. It's interesting enough. It's not in the New Testament, but it is used in the New in the Old Testament. And one of the tasks that my false Jesus, my other Jesus told me to do was to write a flyer on Christian meditation that I could hand out to people on the Venice Beach boardwalk and give to friends in these Christian churches that I would visit when I was studying the Bible to write that flyers this Bible that I have now.
1:00:00 I realized that the transcendental meditation of the pagan Hindu religion, which is practiced by New Ages definitely was not the same thing as the meaning of the word meditation in Scripture. It was very clear to me that the word meditation in Scripture simply means studying reading the Bible studying what you're reading and just thinking about it just pondering on it. Yeah, nothing. To do with any mystical ritual of sitting quietly in your pew or on a chair or sitting on the floor with your cross legs crossed in the Lotus yoga position. It's nothing to do with closing your eyes and attempting to clear the mind of all conflicting thoughts and ideas in the mind. What's called in the New Age stilling the mind and then using mantras to help you focus your mind and doing deep breathing exercises. These are all in Foster's book. Deep breathing is all part of the Prana or breath control mystical techniques of the Hindu religion.
1:01:03 So so who was it that told you to go to the Christian churches and and my spirit guide can you say inside my mind who claimed to be Jesus? Can I get that sound bite from you because that's that's going to be huge for a hook into this video. Yeah, my personal spirit guide who for the last. Two years of my involvement in New Age spirituality was masquerading as Jesus. He was the other Jesus. He was claiming to be Jesus, but he was not the demonic spirit was claiming to be Jesus. This person that appeared to Muriel in her hotel room in the blank Brentwood Holiday Inn that started this whole change to a so-called New Age Christianity for the lighted way. New Age Center. He was one of Satan's evil angels.
1:01:55 Appearing in the flesh and masquerading as Jesus Christ and for two years. My personal spirit guide was no longer the master's wall cool, but he claimed this for my personal spirit guide claimed to be Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be Jesus Christ of the Bible. And he is the one that gave me instructions to visit different Christian churches and to try to find people. And he said he will lead me to people and he would tell me he would say that person there. That person is there. It will someone that will be interested in practicing Christian meditation. Make friends with that person go and sit next to them. I was given specific instructions who I was to make friends with and this particular pastor this from Britain. I was told mentioned to him. You're interested in starting a Christian meditation group in the church.
1:02:49 And he told me this pastor told me said will I think it would be a good idea for you to start a Christian meditation group. In this church. Wow, I never did because it was only maybe two or three weeks later than that. I was rescued from this whole deception. But let me read more from the Apostle Paul. And he says there in verse 4. He said for if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preach. So these other Jesus this to Jesus Christ is the real Jesus Christ of Nazareth that appeared in human flesh born in Bethlehem and rose from the dead. Was crucified and then ascended to heaven. But there is this other Jesus the counterfeit Jesus the false Jesus the Jesus of New Age spirituality the Jesus of Satan and he says. If someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preach or if you receive a different spirit, but there is a spirit.
1:03:47 By that other Jesus a powerful spirit from the one you received or a different gospel from the one you accepted. It's a gospel. But it is different. There are differences in this gospel. This gospel will tell you things that are not in the Bible and will tell you things that are contrary to Scripture. But half of it is biblical about half of the New Age gospel is actually biblical truth and you can get seduced by that. I don't think this is just some alternative form of Christianity, you know, a heterodox Christianity, but it's not it's satanic truth and error. Yeah, and he says or you receive a different and it pulses. Here or a different spirit from the one you accepted you put up with it easily enough. So even the early church there in Corinth in Greece was accommodating the other Jesus different gospel and the different spirit.
1:04:44 Paul said you were putting up with it. And that's why he wrote the letter to the Corinthians to rescue them from the teachings, which were not from Jesus. They were from another Jesus. And then Paul describes later something about the followers of this other Jesus, the counterfeit Jesus, the false Jesus. He says for such men are false Apostles deceitful workmen masquerading as Apostles of Christ. So these are people that are really wolves but in sheep's clothing. They are dressed like Christ. They speak in many ways like Christ. They pretend that they are true Christians, but they're not. They're false Apostles. Deceitful workmen masquerading as Apostles of light, not Apostles of darkness. These are not Satanists. We I never claimed to be a Satanist.
1:05:34 I would have never have gone dreamt of gone nearing Satan. In fact, we didn't believe in Satan. We didn't believe Satan existed. We believe the word Satan in the Bible is just a manifestation of language. Yeah, it's just symbolic language for the tendency within you to gravitate to evil. And it's caused by ignorance. And if you can just overcome ignorance through Transcendental meditation and reading all the Alice Bailey teachings and other New Age books. Well, then you will no longer have evil or Satan or the devil inside of you and Paul adds and no wonder for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. And this is our Satan the front of my book. They masquerade. Not as some demonic spirit with a red cape and a three-pronged pitchfork and horns sticking out of the head. No, no, this is not how Satan appears. Satan appears as an angel of light to deceive.
1:06:38 Even the elect if that were possible. Either truly elect those that are true disciples of the real Jesus that know Jesus because of Scripture, they can perceive the deception. They can have an awareness or a. Consciousness of that deception. They know that this is not true. And Paul writes here in verse 15. And is it not surprising that if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness therein will be what their actions deserve deserve. So the end is not going to be eternal life. The end of New Age Christians. Unfortunately, it's going to be eternal destruction. Yeah, in the fires of hell there as tragic. That so many people are deceived in Matthew chapter 7.
1:07:28 Jesus warns about people who were following this false Jesus because he says there. In Matthew chapter 7 verse 21. Let me quickly turn to that. It's very important that our viewers know that this is all been warned about by Jesus. The real Jesus in Scripture. He says not everyone who says to me Lord. Lord and by Lord Lord is talking about Lord Jesus. Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. So these people are talking to Jesus and they're saying to Jesus Lord Lord. But what happens he says but only he who does the will of my father who is in heaven to do the will of the father is to do what the Bible teaches us to do. Not what some spirit guide tells us to do. Some spirit masquerading as Jesus verse 22 many not a few many will say to me on that day Lord Lord.
1:08:32 Did we not prophesy in your name? They're doing this in the name of Jesus in the name of Jesus Christ. They're prophesying and in your name drive out demons. What could be more deceptive than driving out demons in the name of Jesus? And the demons leave. These are games that Satan plays Satan is evil. Angels constantly play this game. They will have their false Apostles even cast out demons and it looks real. But it's all a terrible deception to make it appear that these are true Apostles of Jesus true miracle workers and it says here. And in your name. They will perform many miracles and in the book of Revelation chapter 13 it says these satanic powers will even bring fire down from heaven to earth in full view of men just like Elijah did but it's of Satan.
1:09:38 It's this beast that comes out of the earth lamb like looks like Jesus but it speaks with the voice of the dragon the dragon of course is Satan. Revelation 12 tells us that the dragon beast. Is a symbol. For Satan the devil Lucifer for the ancient serpent is called the same ancient serpent that masqueraded as a wise animal in front of Eve on when she was tempted to eat that fruit from the tree. Then I will tell them plainly. I never knew you away from me you evil doers. So we better make sure we're following the right Jesus following the true Jesus and not the other Jesus. There's probably thousands of people millions eventually are going to accept this false Jesus as the new age as being the real Jesus Christ. They're going to be as Christians deceived sucked into new age spirituality. For example, major bookstores are even publishing books promoting yoga. All the yoga. This is promoting Christian yoga.
1:10:49 This is written by a lady, and it says here holy yoga exercise for the Christian body and soul, published by a lady called Brooke Boone. And this is promoting the practice of half the yoga and claiming it's Christian yoga. I assume it probably ends up with some kind of mystical meditation. This is another similar book. This title is yoga for Christians. It's written by a lady called Susan Borden. And it says here a Christ centered approach to physical and spiritual health. It's not just spiritual. It's not just physical. It's not just half a yoga. It is spiritual yoga.
1:11:43 Yoga in Hinduism. The very word yoga. Yoga yoke. To be yoked to the pagan deities of Hinduism. Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma and other pagan deities. This is published, friends, by Thomas Nelson. Oh, my publisher of Christian Bibles. They are owned by Bertelsmann, the big German secular publishing house. Zondervan is owned by Bertelsmann. These are secular publishing houses now. And they're publishing material that they think is going to be a blessing to Christians. But this, I believe, is all coming. This is my belief. This is all coming from the other Jesus. It is not coming from the real Jesus of Scripture.
1:12:35 Absolutely. Absolutely. Man, Will, I've learned so much today. It's been incredible. I think out of many, many, many of the interviews I've done, I've learned so much. Many, many, many of the interviews I've done, you have provided the most biblical view of this thing that I've ever seen. And Bible verses, too. I think there's so much to learn here. And I think there's so much more in your book that you have that probably we didn't even touch on. Yeah. I want to finish with one more book to show our viewers. This is written by a Hindu guru that was one of the early gurus that established centers in India. This is written by a Hindu guru that was one of the early gurus that established centers in the United States. His name is Paramahansa Yogananda. Yogananda, obviously connected with yoga.
1:13:23 This book is titled, Behold, the Kingdom of God is Within You. He's quoting from Scripture. This purports to show a picture of Jesus sitting in a transcendental meditation yoga position called the lotus position. This is the same position that is practiced. When one practices Kundalini yoga or serpent power yoga. And this book is titled, The Yoga of Jesus. And it claims to teach what yoga Jesus was teaching. But the true yoga of Jesus is, be yoked to me. Unite yourself with me, Jesus Christ. For my burden is light. And my yoke is easy. All right.
1:14:12 Now, I can tell you, when I was practicing this Christian Kundalini yoga, it was a nightmare of slavery to demonic spirits. It was a heavy burden. And it was a deep process of demonization. Now, notice also how Paramahansa Yogananda has an almost identical book. You can see those. Wow. On this side, which I'm not sure left or right for the way the camera sees it. You've got the book, The Yoga of Jesus. Almost identical is a picture of Krishna, who was claimed to be an incarnation of the Hindu pagan deity called Vishnu.
1:15:03 This shows Krishna in the same position, the same yoga position. And this book is titled The Yoga of the Bhagavad Gita. An introduction to India's universal science of God realization. This is paganism. This is a multitude of pagan deities. Yogananda was a practicer of classical Hinduism. He was worshiping pagan deities. His main deity was Vishnu. Vishnu. The religion claims that at some point, a number of thousand years ago, that Vishnu incarnated as this supposed great guru, Krishna. Well, there you have the merger of the two.
1:15:54 There's no question that this so-called Christian meditation and Christian yoga, it all comes from the pagan Hindu religion. In the Bible, in the Old Testament. The main teaching of the Old Testament throughout, from beginning to end, is God warning his people, starting with Adam, warning them about the serpent, and then warning the Israelites about the pagan religions of the nations that surrounded them. Now, their gods were not called Vishnu, Shiva, and Brahma, and Kirti, Shakti. Oh, they have several names. Some of them are tongue twisters. But it was not warning about these pagan deities, Kali. No. It was warning about things like Baal and Asherah.
1:16:54 And there are several actual pagan deities of the surrounding Canaanite nations that are mentioned in the Bible. But... The biblical faith, the holy land itself was far removed from India. God certainly, I believe, if Hinduism had infiltrated the Canaanites, God would have been also warning about Shiva, Vishnu, and Brahma, and the different deities of Hinduism. But it's the same thing. It's not the real God, Yahweh, or Jehovah, as we call him in English. That's the name of our true God, is Jehovah, or Yahweh. That is the only God we must worship.
1:17:43 Jesus was the son of God, the son of Yahweh, and he also had the name of Yahweh. And we have no business to be going into pagan religions. Even King Solomon, as wise as he was, even he succumbed to the temptation because of his pagan wives, of even worshipping pagan deities. And God had to respond to that. And God responded by splitting Israel into two separate kingdoms, the northern kingdom called Israel and the southern kingdom called Judah. That was done because of what Solomon did. If Solomon was so wise and yet succumbed to this terrible deception, what a warning it is for us today. And we must not be so frattenized with this pagan spirituality that in Christianity is called spiritual formation. It's called contemplative spirituality, breath prayer, or contemplative prayer.
1:18:41 These are all Christianized names for what basically is the Hindu practice of transcendental meditation, which all transcendental meditation is really Kundalini, serpent power meditation. All of it. And I am very much against the practice of so-called Christian meditation in the form of sitting quietly in your pew and doing breathing exercises and visualizing things in your mind and pretending that you're in a conversation with Jesus. That is very, very dangerous. You've no idea who is speaking to you. When you start inviting people in, when you start bringing their voices into your mind, you've no idea. We have to be so careful. We learn about Jesus from Scripture and from the prophets of God that were recorded in the Bible, in Scripture.
1:19:39 It's very dangerous to try to... You know, in the Bible, prophets heard God's voice, like the young boy Samuel. Do you remember? He was on his bed and he heard a voice speaking to him and he thought it was Eli, the high priest. And he ran to Eli and said, Yes, Eli, you called. And Eli realized that he had not said anything to Samuel. He realized God must be speaking to Samuel. But Samuel was chosen as a prophet. There's nothing in Scripture telling us that Samuel was practicing any kind of mystical transcendental meditation, waiting for God's voice to listen to him. No. If God wants someone to be a prophet, he will reach that prophet through dreams and visions. The book of Joel tells us in Joel, it will be through dreams and visions. That is how God will speak to his prophets.
1:20:35 And it will happen in the last days. But it's not going to be through transcendental meditation. I've often heard Christians say, I heard God speak to me and tell me to go reach this man over here or go over here and talk to this man at the grocery store. And this one was having trouble. So I heard God's voice or the Holy Spirit tell me to do this. It always a little bit irked me a little bit because how can you tell what's really talking to you? Yeah. By the fruit, you will know that I'm not saying God cannot speak to people. I have only had probably one instance in my life as a Christian, which was when I was speaking at camp meetings where I heard what I believe was the voice of God speaking to me. And I was speaking at a camp meeting. I was the scheduled speaker for Saturday afternoon. And I arrived Friday evening at that camp meeting and I was staying in a motel.
1:21:36 And it took me a little while in my rental car to get to the camp meeting location. And it was in Oklahoma. And there was a guest speaker from that particular denomination. And he was from the. The church headquarters. And I was quite shocked when I went into that auditorium and saw him holding up Richard Foster's book, Celebration of Discipline. I have it somewhere here. I don't have it on my table here. But and that Friday evening, his presentation was going to be on the last chapter. He'd been the speaker for the whole week. And he was going through different chapters. And he was going through different chapters of Richard Foster's book.
1:22:23 And his topic for that evening was going to be on the last chapter in the book, the chapter on meditation. And as soon as I heard that, I got real nervous. And I was I came in late. So I was sat at the back of the auditorium. There was about 1500 people in that auditorium. And I wondered, what is he going to teach on meditation? And this speaker said. Instead of just telling you what meditation is, I would like to just practice it with you and show you what it is. And I'd like each of you now to close your eyes in your chairs and your seats. Close your eyes and relax. Put your hands on your knees with the palms facing upwards.
1:23:13 Now, this is total Kundalini yoga. You put your feet. The palms of the hands claim they are mystical energy centers. And so you have your palms on your knees with the palms facing up to enable the cosmic energy. This mystical cosmic energy that's kind of coming from outer space, from the realms of God in outer space. It comes through the palms and enters your body. That's why you have the palms upwards. And this is what this man said. And he said, I want you to relax and to start breathing in slowly. Deeply. Breathe in. Breathe out. This will relax you. This is all part of Kundalini yoga. Serpent power yoga. The breath control. Prana. Prana is energy that you're breathing in. It's not about air.
1:24:03 It's talking about breathing the energy of the air. The mystical energy. And he told the people to blank out of their minds all conflicting thoughts and worries and ideas. Just remove them. And you're in this peace of God that you're now entering. Well, by that stage, I'd had enough. I was not going to sit there and listen to this absolute garbage. And I stormed out. I walked out. And I went over to the car. And I sat in the car. And I'm thinking to myself, what am I going to do? What am I going to do now? You know, what am I going to do? How am I going to deal with this? And I heard a voice then. I started to pray. And I heard a voice speak to me. And it said to me, this is the only time I've ever heard God's voice.
1:24:50 It said, Will, calm down. Why do you think you have been sent here? Oh, wow. Providence had it that for lunch, the guest speakers were not in the normal lunch area that was set aside for lunches. We had sort of a private lunch in the office complex there at that campus. There was an office building with a complex there. And there was bedrooms for guest speakers. The lady that was the wife of, you could call the bishop of that particular area, the wife, put me next to this speaker from the church headquarters. And my speaking slot was not until 3 o'clock. My speaking slot was not until 3 o'clock in the afternoon. So we had a couple of hours where I could talk to this man. And he said to me, he said, you know, I have purchased your book.
1:25:59 I was there on a book promotion tour at that camp meeting. And as a guest speaker from the bookstore, local Christian bookstore, they had arranged it. And he said, I have not read your book, but I've purchased it. And I promise you, when I get back to the church headquarters, I'm going to read your book. And I'm going to pay attention to what you have to say. Several weeks later, I called him to follow through. And I asked him, I said, well, have you read my book? He says, yes. And he said to me, he said, I can tell you, I am no longer teaching this Christian meditation. Wow. Wow. But what worried me, the inference was he still practiced it.
1:26:51 That scared me. And his term of office lasted only five years. And he was no longer reelected in that office. But he had a senior position in the ministerial department of that particular denomination. And this is everywhere, friends. It's not just in liberal churches. You know, everyone likes to think, well, this is going to go on in Pentecostal churches or it's going to go on in your mainline liberal churches like the Episcopalian church or this church or that church. No, this stuff is even coming into conservative Christian churches. Wow. Because the more conservative the church, the more you are under attack by Satan. You're the target. People like myself and Brad, people like you, you're on the target list, I'm sorry.
1:27:53 We have to be very, very careful. Because Satan is firing his fiery darts at us. And unless we have a shield of faith that is very strong to bounce off those fiery darts, we're going to get hit. And the real tragedy is, no matter how conservative a church is, you are going to get hit. This stuff is going to come in. Somebody is going to bring this in. Some liberal-minded people are going to allow this to come in, and it has to be dealt with. And I have dealt with it. I have dealt. It's not been a pleasant task, but I have dealt with this in my own denomination. I've had to deal with these issues and still deal with them as well. Thank you so much, Will. I really appreciate you coming on. I think we've learned a lot today.