0:01 Have you heard anything about this activity increasing at all? Yes, it's increasing. The numbers show it. This delusion is called the strong delusion for a reason. This is not just going to be a fly-by-night event. Right. This is going to be an end-of-life event. Joe Jordan is a well-known speaker in the field of ufology. He's a veteran MUFON director and has been recognized for asking the right questions that have proven repeatable results in stopping abduction attacks. He is also a Christian, which is why I featured him in my latest documentary called Starfall on this channel. We were lucky to speak with him tonight personally in his home in South Korea.
1:05 Joe, thank you for being on the program tonight. So tell me a little bit about yourself. Well, my professional background, I'm a safety specialist working for an American contractor supporting the U.S. military here in South Korea. That's kind of how I ended up here. That's my professional life. And I have been in that profession for about 15 years now. I came out of Florida. I lived 40 years in Florida. Right after high school, my dad moved there, retiring from the military. I followed him there and kind of stayed there. Worked a lot of different jobs. I worked 24 years with the leading boat company in the world, Sea Ray Boats, and ended up having... I had an opportunity to go from there across the river from where I lived and worked to the Kennedy Space Center and got to put a few years in at the end of the space shuttle program up until the time it closed out.
2:03 And then as it was closing out, I was looking for other opportunities again because everything was downsizing and ended up taking the hold of overseas contract work. And at the time, my wife I had at the time, you know, I ran it by her and I said, hey, how about taking an opportunity and seeing the world and let somebody else pay for it? And she thought that was great. We both grew up as military brats. Her dad was Air Force. Mine was Army. So we had traveled a lot when we were younger and we missed not being able to see the world. So we took full advantage of this opportunity to come over here as a contractor. Why Korea? It just happened to pop up. At the time, I was applying for overseas contract work that I was trying for the big money. Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait, you know, the war zones were paying good money for contractors. Everybody needed a safety position and I was only getting nibbles as I applied for the jobs.
3:05 And then I had a recruiter from inside the company I was working for at the Kennedy Space Center posted a job for South Korea. And I thought I never thought of that and looked into it a little. Deeper and well, this was one place they didn't hate you and they didn't try and kill you families were welcome pets were welcome and I thought, well, you know, the money's not as much but it's security and I can have family and everything else like a regular life. I'm supporting the military. I'm not in the military civilian. Yes, civilian. Yes. Gotcha. Very good. So now the connection with MUFON is, you know, I had been a MUFON member since 93. And field investigator, I was a state second director for about 10 years for Brevard County, Florida, for MUFON, which means I ran my own chapter out of Brevard County and that's where the Kennedy Space Center is located. It's right. And, you know, when I, when I moved over here to Korea, I thought, you know, now what am I going to do? Am I going to just give this up or does this continue? And that was one of the first things I looked into when I got here and got established in my job because I started asking.
4:17 And my new Korean friends, you know, about the UFO subject. And it was interesting. The answer I got from them, it was right away. It was we don't have time for that. Oh, and, you know, that's a strange answer. You know, what do you mean you don't have time for that? So we're busy. We don't have time for that. And it really puzzled me to try and understand what that really meant. And I thought it was maybe because of the, you know, language difference. That was the answer they gave me. But the more I talked to these people and the more I tried to understand what was meant by that, I realized that they were giving me the right answer. And the reason they were saying that is because this country, you know, is on fire to be the best in the world for technology and industry and business. And that's their focus. I mean, they are seriously focused.
5:15 The kids here go to school. 10, 12, 14 hours a day. So the parents are on fire to get their kids to that level. So they work and they work and they work. So this I don't have time on my hands goes like this. If you're a student, you don't have time. You're a student and you're full time until you're finished being a student. If you're a parent that's working, you work a lot of hours. And that's your focus is to get that income. To get those. To get those kids through the best college you can get them to. And if you're a business owner, you're open long hours to make sure that, you know, your business is going to be more successful than anybody else in the world. So, yeah, they're busy. They don't have time to just dabble in crazy things on the Internet.
6:06 You know, it's a interesting distraction. Exactly. If they're going to spend any time at all outside of what they're focused on. It's going to be. Family or close friends, but they're not sitting around on the Internet looking at conspiracy theories and strange things that they don't have answers for. No, they want answers now for the business and be successful. Wow. Wow. Very work driven. That's very interesting. Yeah. You know, totally opposite of the U.S. You know, we don't want to work long hours. We want more time off. We don't want the overtime, you know, and we spend a lot of time wasted, you know, on the Internet. Not with family, not like they are. How fast can I retire? That's basically the mindset of Americans. Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, that leads to something very interesting that I learned right away. I also looked into MUFON's reports on Korea, South Korea, over the years, and there was next to nothing.
7:12 So, you know, I had to really, really question that. And it seems to. It seems to be there's there's quite a connection when you look at it that, you know, this phenomenon is kind of based on time on your hands. Yeah, that's interesting. I never thought about that. I didn't either. Huh. So what does that mean? You know, we'll talk about that as we get into it. Actually, yeah, it ties in with a good question. I have down down a little further. Do you have I mean, I imagine that you've you've looked at a lot of reports. I don't know if you have done. I have. You have. And you've probably talking to colleagues. I don't know if MUFON has conventions where they get together and discuss or anything. But do you have any memorable paranormal or UFO or UAP or abduction stories that you can talk about?
8:10 Like, I know these things are real, but and I don't want to reveal anybody's name, obviously. Sure. I'm curious. I'm curious about the stories that you have. You have no idea. Yeah, there's let me give you a couple of good ones. Back when I first started, I started out with MUFON as a field investigator means I was following up on sighting reports. You know, sighting report would come in. We'd follow up with it as field investigators go out, talk to the witnesses, gather as much information as we can. So we could put some kind of determination on what. These people were seeing. Well. I used to get some really good stories when I was working at the boat company. You know, I had to get up at 430 in the morning. We started work at six, but we got off at 330.
9:02 And the reason for that was, is we didn't have to go into the extreme late hot hours of the day during the summer. Gave us an opportunity to get the work done during cooler hours. Well, the shift that I was working that day shift. I'd stop at. The local, you know, little 7-Eleven on the way into work, pick up something for a quick breakfast before I got in there. And it was right there in my neighborhood. And what was interesting was a lot of the third shift security was getting off at that time. And from the space center. And third shift security were guys that we used to call in the Rambos because these guys were since 9-11. You know, security got really. High on the Kennedy Space Center and there was full-time contractors, civilians in military unit, not military unit, like paramilitary uniform.
9:57 You know, in four wheel drives out in the boonies and Kennedy Space Center, it's secure in areas where people can't come in, you know, because Kennedy Space Center is huge. It covers many, many square miles, you know, it's a national wildlife refuge out there and it's hard to secure the whole area. So we, they had guys. Out there on third shift, you know, with the infrared and, you know, everything else that they needed out there. Plus they were weaponized and I used to run into some of these guys coming in after third shift. Well, being that I'd lived there so many years, I knew some of them, you know, and these guys had gotten hired, you know, with a decent job out there and they got stuck on that third shift and it's kind of lonely out there. It's not busy out in the boonies, you know, in the middle of the night and they knew what I did. And move on. And I used to, they said, you know, I'm not going to give you on the record with this, but I'm going to tell you, we're seeing some crazy things out there, you know, and I had to really step back and think about that because this was a Kennedy Space Center.
11:04 This is one of the most highly guarded air spaces in the world because of that shuttle program that was going on. And even still with the, you know, the launches that they're still doing, the private launches. And the Air Force launches right there at Cape Canaveral. So for these guys to be saying that they're seeing things in the middle of the night over the center, that would catch a lot of heads. But these are things they couldn't talk about to their, you know, their own, their own superiors. But off the record, they would tell me about it. So it was interesting to hear reports like that and some of the descriptions. One of the first crazy abduction cases. That I can tell you about, really strange, was a gentleman that actually worked with me at the boat company.
11:55 I had no idea he was having these types of experiences. We called him Hippie Bob. He was a hippie type, old hippie type personality. And he was one of the biggest jokers about what I did with UFOs. He had the best jokes, you know, and I could only laugh that on myself. Because I know he didn't mean them. He was just being funny. But he always had them coming. Always a new one about what I did. And then finally one day, I ended up going to second shift. I ended up getting a different position and was running the welding and fabrication shop at product development engineering. And I was doing that on second shift. So my hours got changed where he was still on first shift. Well, he knew I was on second.
12:44 And then one Monday evening. When I got home from work about 1130 at night. As soon as I walk into my house, I get a phone call. And it's Hippie Bob. And he's kind of upset. And he says, you know, I'm really sorry. I've ridiculed you all this time about what you do. And I said, why do you say that? He says, because I haven't told anybody this, but I've been having some experiences. And actually, I quite enjoyed them. You know, they were like out. I would go places and, you know, they were really enjoyable. But the reason I'm calling you is because they took a nasty turn. And I said, well, we should talk about this, you know, and I was ready to go to bed. I'd been up, you know, all day and evening. And I said, yeah, let's talk about this later in the week.
13:39 We'll get together because we were on four 10 hour days. And, you know, Fridays were off. Fridays were off for us. So I said. I was hoping we'd get together on Friday. Well, we agreed that would work. But Thursday came along. I walked in the house again Thursday evening. Again, the phone rings. Again, it's hippie Bob. And he is extremely agitated. And I said, Bob, what's what's going on? And he says, I've been taken. I've been taken again. And I'm going like, what are you talking about? And he goes, they're coming. They're coming. They're coming. And I said, Bob, are you? Are you alone? He says, no, my girlfriend's here with me. I said, I said, put her on the phone. Let me talk to her. And you just calm down. And she's panicking because she's already seen something happen to him that that evening. And she gets on the phone.
14:30 She goes, who is this? You know, and I tried to tell her who I was. I said, just hang on. Let me explain. And I said, do you know Bob's been having some strange experiences? And she says, no, he's never said anything to me. And I said, well, bear with me here. And she says, he's. He's just blacked out again. And I said, it's OK. He's going to be fine. Just bear with me because I know that he'd had, you know, being that it happened before he come back. OK, so I was figuring he'd be OK this time. So I'm trying to explain to her what I do and how I know Bob and, you know, that he already shared with me that he had been having experiences, but they had changed on him. And I said, what's happened? Do you know? She said, yeah. We went to we play pool and darts and for a bar. And we went from different bar in competition. And the two of them, he did drive.
15:28 She did. And they had gone to the first place and they were they had finished the competition and were going to another place for competition. And as they were driving, she said he was in a passenger seat and he's going, oh, they're coming, they're coming, they're coming. And then he blacks out. And she said, I thought he was having a heart attack, you know, so I pulled over, was checking him. He seemed to be all right. And a couple of minutes went by and he comes to and he's like. You know, all freaked out. He says that, you know, they took me, they took me. I've been gone so long. And she says, it's only been a couple of minutes. And he was puzzled by that because the time seemed to be a lot longer. And whatever he'd gone through wasn't a good experience.
16:15 And. He's trying not to share with her, you know, what's happened to him because. He'd be ridiculed for it. And, you know, he wasn't sure what was happening, whether it was real or not. Well, it happened again on the way home from the second place a second time. And that's what put him over the edge. And he called me when he got home. And. Right about that time, as I was finishing up with him, with his girlfriend, he comes back to and he gets back on the phone. And I said, Bobby, all right. And he goes, they're pissed at you. And I went, what? He said, they're pissed at you. And I said, why are they pissed at me? Because, you know, what the blank is going on. I said, Bob, have I explained to you what I've been working with?
17:07 And he goes, not at all. What do they know? And I said, we need to get together and talk about this. Yeah. And this was late Thursday night. And I said, we're off tomorrow. Get some sleep. You're going to be OK. And we'll get together in the morning. And I got together with him in the morning to go over the whole experience. He was still super agitated the next morning when we went there. I had me, my girlfriend. I wasn't married at the time. My girlfriend at the time who was working with us as an abduction investigator with us and a good friend of mine and Bob's. Well, we're all Christians. At this point. And we all went there to listen to his story. Well, as he's telling us the story. Sitting across from us and we're talking to him and he goes, they're coming again. I went, what?
18:00 He goes, they're coming again. I says, you can tell this. He says, yes. And my girlfriend got up, went around behind him, put her hands on his shoulders and started rebuking him and saying, you can't have him. He's a child of God because we knew Bob was a Christian. Also, he was a believer. He was a Catholic raised as a, you know, what they called us, altar boy and everything. But he was a believer. He just wasn't a walk the walk believer, you know, as we are as Christians. Right. And she started, you know, claiming him for Jesus and rebuking the enemy. And it took a little bit, but all of a sudden he got this awesome smile on his face. And he calmed completely down and he goes, how did you do that? And I said, Bob, we're getting ready to share with you what just happened and how you can do that.
18:53 Wow. And after we did that and shared with him what we've been working with and what we had found recently, he no longer had these type of experiences. So that was a fascinating, you know, but for me to get a message directly from them through him, that brought me straight to my knees on the phone. Yeah. You know, because I thought. Oh, this is way close to home. You know, I wasn't expecting this type of stuff. Yeah. Right. Wow. And that's incredible. So she rebuked him in the name of Jesus and they, they basically left him and you taught him more about, I'm sure more about what was actually happening there and they left him alone. Yeah. Now see, when I first got into MUFON, I was an agnostic humanist. I was 42 when I finally gave my life to Jesus Christ. But I, I was only 36 when I started in the MUFON and I was nowhere near any relationship with God or Jesus or anybody else, you know, an agnostic humanist, meaning I, the world was running my life.
20:01 And that's the focus that I got into MUFON with. It was kind of an accident that I even got into MUFON. It was just through picking up one, one book that caught my attention and I read it and um, led me down a rabbit hole, this UFO crash at Roswell, you know, and it just opened up a can of worms for me being a sci-fi reader. And here I was picked, I picked up a book that looked like sci-fi, but said it wasn't. And that's what opened me up into the whole phenomenon of UFOs. I had no interest in it up until that point, but I went into it with, uh, that perspective, you know, uh, the scientific perspective, the nuts and bolts perspective. You know, and I looked at everything I dealt with from that perspective. And as I went through the process of, of becoming more and more involved, um, I realized there was also a spiritual connection to this phenomenon, which wasn't Christianity, um, that I ended up exploring for about four years.
21:07 And, uh, I ended up getting caught up in it. It was the metaphysical and new age realm. Mm-hmm. But I did see the definite connection. And the reason that so many were involved in that, that are part of this UFO phenomenon, um, it's the religion for the phenomenon. Yeah. People go like, well, yeah, it's, it's totally connected. Um, but it gave me an opportunity to look at it again from another perspective. And when I finally got to the point of being introduced to Christianity and realizing that that was the better protection from what? What I was dealing with here and accepting that Jesus is my Lord and savior, uh, in 1996. No. Yeah. 90, 92 is when I started. 96 is when I became a believer. Um, it gave me that third perspective to look at this from now, from a Christian perspective, a biblical perspective and being, having the opportunity to look at this from three different perspectives is, is quite.
22:17 Fascinating because most researchers only get one perspective to look at it from, you know, where I've had three distinct perspectives to look at this phenomenon. And it wasn't until I got to this one, um, as a Christian, as a believer follower, Jesus Christ, did the answer start coming. And it was amazing how they just opened up and, you know, the secular researchers that are still back where I started at. Um, they're still asking the same questions today where we have answers for them now. Wow. Wow. That's really fascinating. Yeah. You know, as I was researching this whole stuff myself, the big, the biggest surprise to me was how, uh, there, there's a number of, um, I guess, well-known people right now in the UFO UAP is the new term, um, realm and they, they teach you to contact these things through.
23:18 The new age meditation and C E five, C five. Yeah. And I was, I was just shocked. I was like, wait a second, C E five. Why do they call it meditation? C E five. That's meditation. According to the new age, you know, there's meditation, Christian meditation. There's also meditation, new age, but the, uh, the new age meditation, you know, empty your thoughts up to your mind and, you know, things like that. But, um, I, I was shocked. So what you said when you said, um, it's, it's so. Tied to, to that new age meditation that, that really resonated with me. Cause it was a shock shocker. Well, just to give a little explanation about what C E five is, if you look here at C E four research, that's the name of the group that I have, um, working with these abductions C E four represents the abduction experience. Uh, J Allen Heineck put together the C E ratings way back during project blue, but prior to project blue. I, uh, you know, we had a city tour in the back of the city, but I forgot to put in the image here that we had a couple of years ago that we had the activity research group that was helping us with that process.
24:28 So for those of you who are familiar with that, uh, project blue is, um, this one is basically a, you know, it's, it's a, it's a, uh, a, a, anату. It's a, it's, so the, uh, uh, you know, uh, for that, that's the, uh, the, uh, the, there's a bunch of other initiatives that are, that's, uh, there's a bunch of other initiatives that have been in place. Uh, I don't know. I mean, that was great. encounter close encounter yes and then there's also a ce6 and ce6 deals with injury or death cause from an experience oh i didn't know that wow wow well i should have added some more questions then i that's that's really interesting i'm gonna get sidetracked going down rabbit holes but i that was actually one of the questions i i wanted to ask about um not only civilian but also government because they have had it seems as if at least what has been released right now it shows a lot of government standing off of these things and it leads me to believe this is just speculation on my part but it leads me to believe that there have been run-ins with these things and they're they're like whoa whoa let's not touch these things because they're beyond us we don't know what's going to happen next and so it kind of makes me wonder if there have been casualties in the past that they just don't want to talk about but anyway i don't want to get too speculative but if you have any information on that i'm i'm all ears that's that's really interesting there there have been cases that have been documented where there have been um injuries illness or death over the years on uh some pretty well-known cases the cash landrum case for one which goes way back um it was two ladies that had uh that was their last names they they had an encounter visual encounter with a ufo um on a road and that closing encounter left um radiation type burns on them and so that's your injury or illness that can happen to people um is that no that's not typical um don't know what that was you know they don't have an answer for what they saw there's a lot of speculation about that that it possibly could have been one of something military something special um but they don't know stays up unidentified to this day there have been some some cases out there where death was involved there was a researcher i came across years ago i don't remember his name i actually got a chance to hear his talk where the whole thing was putting together the cases that we knew about for ce6 and they're quite fascinating but not a lot of them um probably one of the biggest effects you get from these cases uh especially in the abduction realm is uh you know the where they seem like they're suffering from death and they're not they're not they're not they're not they're not suffering from ptsd you know the effects of something very traumatic and you know they have all right to be suffering from ptsd because most of the experiences are very traumatic in the abduction realm and especially to to live with an experience that you were taken against your will you remember things being done to you that were very horrible and you don't know when it's going to happen again oh no so that that's not a good thing to do and i think that's a good thing to do to have to live with you know and and and not to have an answer for it or how to stop it that just makes it even worse so that that um another rabbit trail again but that leads me to another question when i first 10 years ago when i first started getting into this little bit i experienced um immediately when i started doing the research and i'm not scared of these things i've seen this stuff before it's not like i was fearful of it but at at when at night i would start um experiencing what i googled to be uh sleep paralysis what i'd wake up with something very fearful happening but i couldn't move and do anything about it is this tied to any ufo or abduction phenomenon i guess i want to separate those two yeah it's tied hand in hand most of the time people that claim an abduction experience also talk about the occurrences of sleep paralysis either during the experience or separate by itself without an actual memory of an experience
28:51 um you got to keep in mind though you know as a researcher i i have to look at things a little different you know and and my profession helps me helps me do that because in the research you don't jump to the most extraordinary answer first i have to rule out whether they have medical issues whether they have stress issues whether they have um medicinal issues you know legal or non-legal that could be driving these experiences or it could be you watch too much tv you know and you were suggested to dream of this you know which is normal um i have to look at all that and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and see if that's what's driving this person's memory of this experience and if i get down to where it really doesn't fit any of those and i know i've got that small percentage that needs to be dealt with and and i think you're right if we if we skip right to the paranormal then we we might miss the logical yes and there's a lot of logical things that can be you know done for let me give you one example really really good example um back when i was a field investigator at the space you know living next to the space center i was working at the boat company though not not working at space center yet my son who was young at the time uh middle school he was playing flag football you know local flag football on a team and i got to know his coach pretty good and his coach worked at the space center and we talked a little bit about what i did with the ufo stuff and he was quite fascinated well never really much happened about that until one day we showed up at practice after i got off work right and after he got off work and then they had after late afternoon practice and i went down to the field and dropped my son off and he come running over right away he says i need to talk to you and he says let me get these guys going in there you know their exercises and i'll come talk with you i said okay so i hung around and uh he come over and he says we had an incident at the space center today during the launch they had launched that morning and something was seen on video and they shut the place down because he worked in a place where they did the tracking on video long range cameras oh and he said that something was seen on video long range and it was right after the launch and the shuttle goes up and the boosters come off and it was right before the tank separation and something came across the bottom of the right across the view the bottom of the space shuttle okay space shuttle is going this way and this thing come flying right right across horizontal and they're saying uh-uh that's not good that's too darn close to this uh to this you know this big dollar high money high risk everything involved so they shut everything down grab that tape right away well he was able to get a copy out oh yeah yeah and it was vhs and he gave me the short footage of that and i looked at that and looked at that and i thought wow this is pretty big stuff again this is that special airspace that they don't want anything in because the challenger and columbia and everything else here they had something on video wow well i took that and without exposing him i uh had it looked on looked at by our leading uh video guy and and photography guy from mufon and when a report finally came back the you know the hard analysis came back what they were seeing was a bird up close oh in the air in the air in the focus of a long range camera oh man and it's that's it's that simple to be fooled yeah but it was that spectacular this thing was actually released you know it wasn't kept quiet nasa let it out uh right away the six o'clock news local news that night out of orlando actually had the clip that i had given to me on the news so you could see it so everybody got to see this and everybody's seeing this
33:49 advertised as a ufo but i'm the one that got the report that came back and said nope this is a bird at close range super out of focus because the cameras were focused on something miles and miles away but it's it's that easy to be fooled that even the you know those top engineers out there were fooled you know for the moment yeah yeah until you get some different camera angles and stuff yeah well i like actually leads into my my next question what are some of the commonalities like if uh i've heard and i've seen a few of your videos you talk about um and we talked about this a little bit earlier how uh speaking of jesus's name is something that um that will stop the abduction process um is that correct yes we found that kind of by accident well probably wasn't an accident if you've watched my videos um kind of god-given when i became a believer and i was ready to put all this away because i realized that well god kind of showed me this was not what it appeared to be i didn't want any part of it i wanted to become a you know a devout believer in jesus christ and not dabble in these things anymore but he had bigger plans and lord kind of laid on my heart you need to take this back where you came from take the truth back where you came from and i said i can't take this back to that new age metaphysical realm i said they don't believe the word of god to be real they don't believe you to be real they think they're god you know i said uh lord you gotta give me something better than that you know and i thought i'd gotten my way out of that one uh no he's bigger than that he said uh you already have what you need and i didn't know what that meant so i talked to my partner who was a pastor and i said i don't know what that meant and he said i don't know what that meant he was also christian and uh my lead investigator for the group and i said what do we got here that i'm missing he says i don't know let's go back and look so we went back and looked at some of the cases that we had on videotape that we had recorded and sure enough we're watching this guy um that had been coming to the meetings and he talked about being an experiencer and a ufo sighting experiencer um and he's telling us about this abduction experience and here we recorded it on tape six months prior to me becoming a believer i didn't remember hearing any of it neither did my partner you know but yet we sat right there and listened to him and recorded it so we're watching it again and he's telling us about this experience he had that was really horrific where he felt like he was being held up you know in the air with a pole up his rectum and it was painful and he you know he he was just totally traumatized while it was happening and the only thing he knew to do because he himself had just become a believer was do what they taught him in church and call on jesus if you ever need help so he cries out during the experience jesus jesus helped me and boom he's in the bed waking up and the experience is abruptly stopped and i looked at my partner and i said did you catch that i've never heard of it i've never heard of it i've never heard of it i've never heard of it uh-huh because in all of our research from this leading researchers in the realm as we studied it before we got into dealing with abductions all of them stated that an abduction experience could not be stopped wow so here we had one that said it they he had stopped it in a very unique way so i figured i better check this out you know this is either not true he's either trying to get attention or maybe it is real so i contacted a lot of the leading researchers personally at their homes called them up and said hey guys i got this case here can you share it with me and they said sure what do you got i shared the story with them and each time that i do that they'd say can we go off the record and i say sure we go off the record just help me out here and when i say off the record it's that they're asking for anonymity yeah it means uh i can't tell you who said what but i can tell you what they said and as a mufon representative we have to um give anonymity when somebody asks for it we're bound by law for that yeah so i've never shared with who said it but what they said was yes we've come across cases similar to that where people have either you know hummed or sang a christian hymn
38:41 are quoted scripture or said the lord's prayer or called out the jesus and the experience stopped wow i said really and i said well why is this not published why why do you say that it's it's not possible to stop an experience and this is where things got a little weird because their answer to this was well we didn't know what to make of it you know that's a good answer if you don't know you don't know yeah yeah and i would have been fine with that but they weren't they had to give me another reason like that wasn't enough and they said we were afraid to go there because it might affect our credibility in the realm wow and they were serious and i understand looking at this years later why they were serious about that but what are we talking about here they know the answer but they're not sharing it yeah that's a cover-up yeah that's covering up you know and everybody in ufology talks about the government cover-up the government cover-up the government cover-up your biggest cover-ups amongst the researchers are relying on for the truth i have to tell you that and that was probably one of the biggest things i found in this whole field of research is you can't trust these guys you know they they truly have agendas i don't have an agenda i got a job that i work you know full time i can walk away from it i can walk away from it i can walk away from it i can walk away from it anytime i want you know my job is going to continue but i don't rely on this to support me in any way you know so i have no problem sharing the truth but obviously they do is there any number of of cases that you've come across that you know of that um have had this happen i mean have you counted roughly how many have um cases you've you've come across as has been able to call it the name of jesus and has stopped yeah some well over 400 cases wow and they're still coming in wow you know every time i do a show like this or you know a documentary and somebody new sees this work um oh i too have done that maybe i should share my testimony so every week every other week i get testimonies come in so my biggest question over the past two decades is how many of these testimonies is it going to take for you to get it done and how many of these testimonies are going to take for you to get it done realize that this is actually happening that people are able to stop this and they're all been able to stop it in the same manner through the name and authority and a personal relationship with jesus christ now i'm talking about terminating the experience that means never happening again in your life okay not just stopping it you can be a non-believer and call on jesus and he'll stop it if you truly are asking jesus you know wholeheartedly but you're not a follower of jesus he said call on me i'll be there for you yeah but i tell you what he's going to change your life when you see this happen and you will be a follower of jesus christ i got a lot of testimonies like that but the the interesting thing is we started building up the database of case upon case upon case you know to show that what we had was something real you know and we started building up the database of case upon case upon case you know to show that what we had was something real a piece of the puzzle that needed to be shared something interesting started happening and it was back in the beginning we probably had about 45 50 cases up on our website at the time and uh i finally got that first contact can you help me oh wow yeah that was new uh well that wasn't what we had planned on doing we had planned on just documenting case testimonies as researchers but now i got somebody who had read the testimonies online that we were posting for everybody to see and said i'm troubled by this too can you help me wow oh yeah and i thought well i think we can i think we've learned enough to show you what's worked for them um should also work for you if you choose right so we shared with them and they did everything that the other people did and guess what they became a testimony wow so what's that called that's called repeatability yes that's what science
43:27 looks for uh-huh there's no other repeatable event in ufology huh nobody has ever called a ufo in twice but yet we're able to take evidence of somebody who has stopped the experience terminated it from their life the relationship with jesus christ show somebody else who's still having the experience how they too can be like them free from this in their life they do it except jesus christ is their lord and master and it works for them wow that's repeatability that's something i can't i mean i i can believe that but i it's just it blows my mind that that it's a cover-up that i mean it all depends on the person's worldview how much information they want to share and how much they don't want to share depending on what they they think and believe or what lens they view through exactly interesting you know i can understand because i was at that i was at that place myself you know when i first started out as an agnostic humanist i didn't want to hear anything at all that had to do with spirituality you know i wasn't going to share any of that if i heard about it so them still being there i i understand why they felt that way because this is not a christian phenomenon you know this is a phenomenon that is worldly and for them to come out and and well i can tell you just from my my testimony of dealing with this for 20 years in the ufo realm it's very easy to get this information out the the ufo community doesn't want to hear it they really don't because you know they're they're looking for a savior to come from the skies they just don't realize he's already come wow they didn't like them they didn't like the message of the one who came before because the difference is of what's being offered from this phenomenon and its spiritual connection with this phenomenon is a spiritual reality unlike christianity it's a spirituality that these people can have because of this phenomenon and it's a spirituality without accountability that's this that's the seduction wow wow that that's huge that's exactly what's going on a god or a savior that you're not accountable to but it will give you everything is there any other commonalities i've heard you talk about um the appearance and different uh the way people describe these things like it's not always a a cylinder craft as we think the news always displays what what is the normal uh what do people um describe when they see these things well just to give you an example i told you i get monthly reports from mufon for reports that come in for the month just in the u.s alone we're averaging somewhere around 500 sighting reports that come in to move on and i'm not talking about mufon uh on a monthly basis wow and then they'll break it down by state and then they'll also have another chart that'll break it down to other countries showing the rank all the way down to zero and then they'll have a chart taking all of those sightings and breaking them down by shape okay now when people think of ufos it's automatically ufo is related to alien spacecraft flying saucer um how did that happen you know hollywood did that to us uh because that's not what we're talking about we're talking about something that we can't identify if you saw a flying saucer oh excuse me but that's identified yeah you know that's not unidentified you may not know where it's from but you're identifying an actual defined shape right you know which uh that's going to get some good investigation um when you look at the reports that i get out of 500 reports i think last month when i looked at it it was like 66 of the 500 were described as being saucer shape so there's a whole lot of other that come first yeah and the first one being uh a glowing round object like a fireball or whatever
48:15 you know huh and then it'll go to a sphere and you know and it'll stay in that type of category uh until it gets down the line to where you got those 66 out of the majority that people said they claimed it looked like a saucer you know but you know even that is easy to i you know i i used to collect pictures and show them at my meetings i used to have monthly meetings when i was there in florida it's one of every four years i've been there and i've been there for a long time requirements of a state section director to have monthly meetings open to the public share with them what we're doing and uh it's also for recruiting purposes too to get members in to move on but i used to take a lot of pictures and collect a lot of pictures that people took to share them to show them what people are experiencing and and misidentifying it doesn't take much to see to take a picture of a bird with wings tucked behind it you know just zipping through the air from a side view uh at a high speed so right away your camera's gonna fuzz the picture but from a side view at a distance and you blow it up with your fingers on your phone yeah it looks like a disc you know that's how simple things can be you know um confused you know it's that simple you you look at an airplane from a great distance with the sun shining on it reflecting on it really bright and it's flying straight horizontal across you you can't see the wings because they're level with the plane you barely see the tail because the fuselage is glowing so so bright you think oh flying disc look at that unidentified and at a great distance even though the plane's traveling 400 plus miles an hour it looks like it's sitting still yeah you know so a lot of confusion out there yeah yeah so even those claims of seeing a flying disc probably not a high percentage of those was really a flying disc what about so are there any other commonalities you've seen over the years uh looking at these reports or that have been said to you through other directors or i don't know what you call the people that actually go out and do the investigation have they said anything that that is peculiar peculiar commonality yeah there is and uh that's one i look for big time and i think that you're starting to see it here now um with these new reports coming out you're starting to see it kind of tie in and i'm glad it is because people didn't know what to make of the phenomenon in the earlier years uh it goes back to uh an english researcher named jenny randles uh back to about 1991 she was seeing some similarities between cases that she didn't understand and didn't know why they were happening and didn't know what to call it and uh the term she put on it is the oz factor and the reason that she used that is its similarity to dorothy and the wizard of oz okay and what i'm trying to describe here to you that she was seeing and i actually interviewed two gentlemen in florida um two country boys fishing um had seen and seen something and they were very disturbed about the sighting and i realized it wasn't what they saw that was disturbing them it was what they experienced when they saw it that was disturbing them and i had to get it i had to ask the right questions to get them to come out with it um and then when i did they were like they they were tongue-tied but what's happening here is when people have a sighting close-up sighting of a craft or entities and things change in their environment in other words it's like all of a sudden they're in this time distortion bubble yes and things kind of stand still time slows way down and totally silent give you an example those two fishing those two guys fishing
53:07 been fishing out there for a few hours drinking beers typical country boys right near i-95 and their favorite fishing hole well i-95 is heavy heavy traffic you've been around traffic you know that it's noisy and here you are in florida in a swamp area fishing there's also cicadas mm-hmm they're noisy oh yeah okay but here comes this object in view of them and hovers up over a hill and they're in a swamp area and they're in a swamp area and they're in a swamp area above them and it catches their attention and all of a sudden they realize that things seem a little weird there's no sound period everything is like it's standing still and that's something that's very unusual for a human to experience especially when it's not natural to us that's what was upsetting them and they didn't know what that was and they were very disturbed by living in a swamp area and they were very disturbed by living in a swamp area and they were very disturbed by living in a swamp area and they were very disturbed by living that experience it was almost like having an out-of-body experience yeah you know what people talk about well that's just the example i'm familiar with that i that i had firsthand you know interview with but what jenny randles was talking about was very similar amongst many cases there's one that happened in 1994 i believe it was in zimbabwe at a school in africa where over a hundred middle school students you know elementary and middle school students on a playground encountered a craft with two beings and if you listen to their testimonies even now as an adult where they can really describe it to you yeah you will see every aspect of the odds factor in that experience because one of the girls that uh is is doing her talk now when she talked about She talks about seeing the entities way at the end of the playground and the shining object that they were next to.
55:27 She's watching them, and then all of a sudden, the entity moves closer and moves closer. Didn't get to see him move at all. He just appeared and appeared. And then everything was totally silent. She says it was eerily strange, like it was silent, and time wasn't there. And then there was communication between the entity and her through the mind. And so this is that Oz factor. You're there, but you're somewhere else at the same time. This is why she named it the Oz factor, because when Dorothy went to Oz, okay, and lived that whole experience with the short people and the witches, and all that stuff, and the wizard, and the, you know, where was she the whole time?
56:24 Yeah, I don't remember the end of the story, but I'm imagining in her bed. She was sleeping in the bed. She wasn't really there, okay? This is why the strangeness, she called it the Oz factor. You're there, but you're not really there, you know? Yeah. Wow. What we're seeing now. In the description of this, let's say, let's just take the one object called the tic-tac. They're saying for that thing to have the ability that it does, to defy physics in the way that it does. And I've heard him say it right on his interviews, Louis Elizondo. It would have to be in some time temporal bubble. Wow. They know. They know. Yeah.
57:20 Wow. So that Oz factor, it's tying back in. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. With what they're seeing now. So that actually brings me to my next question. You talked about the kids in Zimbabwe, right? The kids, or the teachers, or someone was given a message. Do you know of anything in your MUFON reports that talks about common messages? That these things are trying to give humanity? Oh, yeah. There's a lot of common ones. The main common ones being about we're ruining our planet. And, you know, they're here to help us fix that.
58:08 Or we can't move on until we correct ourselves and take care of this planet. Or, you know, something to that effect. They give end-time scenarios. Doomsday scenarios. A lot of the messages have come out to where a certain percentage of humanity will be rescued to the ships before the destruction of the Earth. And then repopulated to start humanity over again. But, you know, they never lifted a finger to help us. You know? It's like, well, help us now. Exactly. And... The other strange... The other strange communication with all of this, and you see a lot of it, too, is the messages are anti-God, anti-creation, anti-Christ, anti-Bible, anti-Christianity.
59:07 You know? And to me, as a researcher, that's a red flag. Yeah. Because why would beings come from vast distances across the universe to this little rock in space to preach a gospel that... That... Is against one belief system. Yes. You know? When there are so many different belief systems on this planet. But, you know, I got to correct that. There really is only two belief systems on this planet. The one that believes in Jesus Christ as Lord and Master and God come in the flesh. And all the others that don't. But you know one thing about all those others that don't? They're all acceptable in the New Age metaphysical. Because why? They all have the same thing in common. They're anti-Christ also.
1:00:02 So they come all the way here to bash Christianity. That's a red flag. That doesn't make sense. No, that's not logical. It isn't. It doesn't fit any reasoning at all. So if they're here to make sure that one's shown to be incorrect, it must be something that needs to be looked at. Right. Yeah, exactly. So is there any evidence that UAPs seem to be pre-selecting their observers? Oh, yeah. I'm kind of curious about that. Are there any similarities between those who have experienced these things and that have come and talked to MUFON, I guess? Well, that takes us to the question that the secular realm is still asking today. Why does this happen? Why does this happen to certain people? Well, in our research, CE4 Research Group's research findings, we found three answers.
1:01:06 Not just one. It can be one or a combination of the three. The first one, you ask for it. And you're thinking, well, people ask for this? Yeah, they do. People are curious. People hear about it. They see about it. They say, man, I wish I could find out what that was about. I'd like to see something. Oh. Be very careful what you ask for. Yeah. I was one of those people. I used to hang my head out the window coming back from UFO meetings going, please show me something. You know? I'm chasing you guys around like chasing my tail, but I give up. Show me something. That's another story. But number two is we came. We came across people who unknowingly opened themselves up to this experience.
1:02:00 And how did they do that? The commonality is they were involved with either the aspects of the occult, the new age, the metaphysical realm. In specific, anything that God said, don't mess with, they've been messing with. Oh. Interesting. Interesting. There seemed to be that same connection. I could take it back to when they did that by questioning them. We go back to look where the open door was so we can show them what happened and help them close that door. And that seems to be the largest number of people fit into that category that are experiencers. Go ahead. The third one puzzled us. The third one came when people started telling me that.
1:02:53 They don't fit the first two because they were just children at the time. They remember having experiences, you know, as far back as they can remember, six, seven, eight years old. And I said, okay, you're right. That doesn't fit the first two. So what makes that happen? Well, I thought about it a while, prayed over it a long while. And then Lord took me to some scriptures to where I go, okay, I got this. Now I got to show the rest of the world. So I went back. I went back and re-interviewed a lot of the experiencers. A whole different set of questioning. What was your family life like? Do you remember? What were your parents involved in? Were your parents godly people? What did they do? What were their hobbies? The open door was with the parents. Oh, wow. Wow.
1:03:45 So this idea of keeping a godly covering over your family is all real. You know? You bring those things into your household, the rest of your household is susceptible to it, too. Wow. Wow. It affects generations. Wow. It goes, that's how it continued through generations. The rest of the secular research realm is looking for genetic connection, blood work connection, you know, something that makes it go through that generational thing. But it's not. It's upbringing, you know, it's social environment that's got them locked in. But, you know, that doesn't make any difference. Because once you're free from this experience, you're learning the truth, and through a relationship with Jesus Christ, it's not going to continue.
1:04:37 It's not going to continue in your children and their children, you know, unless they open it up. But it's not going to come from you. Have you ever heard of, I've heard this from different stories. Not only, well. Number one, you rebuke it in the name of Jesus Christ, it will go away. But I've also heard that if you have things in your house that pertain to this demonic activity, such as Ouija boards or spell books or things like that, you're told to get rid of those things because they have some jurisdiction over the property. Have you heard anything like this? Or is this total crock? I don't believe in that the items have jurisdiction. I believe that if it's in your household, that it's still a temptation to you.
1:05:33 Ah, that makes sense. Let me give you, for instance, I've talked in a lot of churches, and I've talked at youth groups. Well, when I talk to a youth group, I got to bring the level down a little bit for them to understand. So what I try to do on this particular subject. This part of the subject, to answer that, is I try to get the pastor or the youth pastor to make sure there's a door nearby. And when I get to this point about open doors, I'll open the door up and I'll go, all right, can anybody tell me what this is? And they're all looking at me like, this guy's crazy. You know, but there's that one little geeky kid in the back that goes, yeah, that's an open door. Correct. And that's how the enemy gets into your life. You opened it up to him. Okay. You opened the door.
1:06:29 And I said, now what's this? And I closed the door, but I leave my little finger in it. I said, now what's this? And they're all like, that is really crazy. But there's that one geeky kid again. He goes, that's still an open door. I'm going, you're right. And then I'll slam it shut. So you hear a loud bang. I say, that's a. That's a closed door. That's what you have to do with all these things that brought you into this in the first place. Any dabbling you continue to do is going to continue to give these entities a right to mess with you. Yeah. I think you answered some of these questions already, but have you ever seen reports or stories about non-human occurrences like animal deaths or mutilations, sunburns, health side effects, radioactivity?
1:07:21 These may indicate some things that may. Indicate that these things are not benevolent. Yes. And there's a lot of those, a lot of the abduction experiencers will wake up with strange marks on them. Some of them even call like marks, you know, after an experience, um, a lot of physical trace evidence, supposedly, which, which gets us into a whole nother area. You talk about going down rabbit holes that just one after another, uh, in this field. But the whole idea of, is this a physical object or not? Is the abduction experience a physical, I'm taken somewhere experience or not? What is it? Well, I can give you some input on our findings into that. Looking at it on the abduction side. I have a lot of even, even fellow Christian researchers.
1:08:25 That keep telling me, you know, don't close the door on this being a physical experience and I'm saying I'm closing it because I don't see anything that says, leave it open in my research. I had to finally get a handle on that one. Um, because people actually believe that they were getting taken somewhere to a physical craft and actual things actually physically done on them. Um, I'm going to, you know, the evidence just isn't there. And then working with. My long-term friend and peer, also a Christian, uh, Gary Bates, he's the CEO of creation ministries international out of Georgia. Um, he wrote the book alien intrusion back in, uh, 85, 95, 95, no, 2005. That's when it was 2005. I worked with him at the end of that on there. He's actually got a chapter on my testimony in there.
1:09:22 But he saw something in there. That caught his attention. And what he said was there's an awful strong similarity to the person's testimony of an experience and somebody who's just come out of stage hypnosis on a stage setting with somebody who does stage hypnosis. Yeah. They kind of explain the experience in the same manner. So we started exploring that a little bit and I went back and started again, reinvestigating some of my cases and I said, I don't want to relive your experience. Like I did before, I don't want to talk about where this came from. We're going to relive the experience in a different manner. I'm going to ask more questions instead of just listening to you tell a story. So as they started talking, I would say, you know, they give a description.
1:10:26 I don't know where they're at. And I'd say, well, what do you see to the right? What do you see to the left? What did you smell? You feel any temperature change? Asking him questions they should have been able to answer if they were there. Right. In other words, if I asked you about your last birthday, you know where you were at. You remember your last birthday. Most of the things you remember are the sensational things that you want to remember. But you know, you're not going to remember. You're not going to remember. You're not going to remember. You're not going to remember. You're not going to remember. You're not going to remember. You know, the whole day is there. All I have to do is ask you the right questions. I do not use hypnotherapy. Never have. I just know how to ask the right questions. Same thing I do in my profession for safety. Trying to get to a root cause for an accident. Ask the right questions.
1:11:15 Go deeper. Go deeper. Go deeper. When I did this with these experiencers, so many answers weren't there. The reason they weren't there. Because they didn't happen. In other words, what we were seeing here was like if you went to a Broadway play. And you're watching a Broadway play. And the scene that you're watching is a living room scene. So the playwright, he has certain objects placed on the stage for you to realize from the audience. Oh, this is the living room scene. There's a camera. There's a couch. There's a chair. There's an end table. There's a lamp. There's a picture on the wall. This is a living room scene. That's all it took for you to realize that. Okay? The same thing happens with the abduction experience.
1:12:12 Only enough sensational things are placed in the experience in here for you to believe that it actually happened. Wow. Along with horrific experience. Right. Pain. Fear. All the things that drive it home. So you don't question the details. Because when you question the details, they're not there. Secondary realm, hypnotherapists will tell you, oh, it's not there because they put a mind block on them. No, that's not what happened. It isn't there because it didn't happen. Hypnotherapists want to try and tell you that what you're experiencing when you talk in your, under hypnotic regression, is actually what happened. No, that's not.
1:13:01 It's not even accepted in court of law. There's a reason for that because it's fallible. Right. But you will remember things that really did happen to you if you're asked the right questions. And the right counselors can do that with you. Investigators can do that with you. Well, that's when I realized this is all. A visionary experience. The question is, once you accept that. Is. This is like a play. Who's the playwright? And that's when you got to start looking at the whole picture. What's the message? What's the activity? What's the outcome? Every aspect of it was pointing to something evil, wicked, mean and nasty.
1:13:54 Yes. And as a Christian. We know what that is right now, you take it a step farther. Let's go back to the UFO side of it and the UAP side of it. Things that defy physics. What else can defy physics? Exactly. Christians are known to be angelic hosts. One of the best descriptions, and this is what's called a heavenly body in Christian terminology. Yeah. We're all. We're all going to receive heavenly bodies at some point, our physical bodies at the resurrection are not going to heaven, right? We're going to be transformed in the twinkling of an eye into our heavenly bodies. Who else had a heavenly body that we know about? Yeah, well, I mean, Jesus did after he was developing his heavenly body after the resurrection.
1:14:55 Look very carefully to what scripture is telling you. About him. After the resurrection. Okay. He's no longer in that physical human body. Form. He's in his resurrected working on heavenly body. Because when he lifted up his physical body is not what lifted up. He was already in his heavenly body. Remember, he warned him about touching him. He was able to walk through walls. He was able to. He was able to appear here and then appear over there. Okay. Does this sound familiar? Yeah. Yeah. Like those things there. The Navy is filming.
1:15:43 Also having that time distortion bubble where it says, you know, don't touch me. He eventually did let Thomas touch him. Look at the aspects of angels in scripture. They appeared. And then they disappeared. Yes. When they appeared, they were short periods of time. Even Jesus was only here a short period of time after he resurrected from the tomb. They don't have the ability to stay here long. These are manifestations of a spiritual entity. Okay. What the secular realm is calling interdimensional coming into our physical realm, they're speaking our language. Just with a little bit different terminology.
1:16:35 But never in history do I believe that we have been closer to witnessing to the lost than now because our language is so close. They are already accepting things that don't make sense. Yeah. They are already accepting the paranormal. Oh, man. Supernatural. Let me tell you. Can I tell you just a short story? Sure. Sure. I promised I wouldn't make this about me, but I wanted to know more about your move on things. But I was amazed as I'm getting into this, I'm joining a few UFO groups on Facebook, and I'm trying to learn the terminology and really get into it and understand it. And I came across every once in a while, I'll see a question that comes across. It says, you know, this one person asked, what are demons? They said, what are these things that because there have been some Christians that have come into the UFO realm and said, hey, you know what? Maybe these are. Or here's a link to this.
1:17:34 And I have been doing that a little bit, too. But I was shocked. And so I started conversing with these people. These people want to believe. They want something to believe in. And sometimes they just don't know the difference between them. And they legitimately are searching for something to hold on to. And that's what's fascinating to me about this whole thing. You know, I don't like to bash the American church or Western church. I don't like to bash the American church in any way. But I have to say that we've missed the point for a long time. We're missing the point on an opportunity to reach these people because they are looking for something. This subject has been ridiculed for so many years. And anybody that talks about having an experience gets immediate ridicule. And especially coming from the church, you know, somebody to try to go into the church and say, help me.
1:18:33 I've had these horrible experiences. Oh, you're dealing with demons. Are you crazy? Go away. They don't know how to handle them. They've never been taught what this really is or how it works or how do you deal with these people. That's what we're trying to do with CE4 research. We believe that we are at a point right now where with what we've learned in this research for 27 years, we can take to the church and educate the church to be able to use this information. As probably the one of the most powerful witnessing tools they've ever had their hands on. Wow. Because like you said, these people are looking for hope. Yes. It's just that what they're missing here is, you know, sadly to say, a lot of people have been turned off by a church experience, a religious experience, should I say.
1:19:27 And I say religious because I'm not talking about, you know. You know, man-made religion, Christianity that's had a man's spin put on. I'm talking about what God says. What does God say in his word? You know, we shouldn't be bashing these people for what they're involved in. We should be giving them an opportunity to understand there's something else that's better. There's something else that maybe they should look at here that maybe what you're dealing with is not what you think it is. And that's kind of the approach that we try. When I work with people brand new in this realm that come to me, I don't come right out and say, hey, this is demonic. You've been dealing with demons, you know, and you're doomed to hell. I mean, they're going to figure that out eventually.
1:20:16 What I do is I bring up the red flags of ufology. I mentioned that before. You bring up enough red flags to where they start going, oh, yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense either. What am I believing? It makes them doubt what they've taken hold of as a belief system. And it makes them stand back and go, yeah, this ain't right at all. What do you have? And when you get them to that point where they ask you, what do you got? Now you got their ear. Now you have an opportunity to say, hey, let me show you what we found. I'm going to let you make the decision. What do you think this is? And when I lay out the red flags and lay it all lined up for them, what's the word that comes out of their mouth?
1:21:11 Not mine, but theirs. This is demonic. Wow. I didn't say that. You did. Because how can they even say that if they're not believers in Jesus Christ or Christianity? Because everybody knows about Jesus Christ. Everybody knows about demons. And where did they get that from? Hollywood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we talk about this in different circles about, you know, is there anybody out there that doesn't know who Jesus Christ is? I really don't think so. I think it's a matter of whether you choose to follow him or not. And these people. People have chosen not. I was one of those. I chose not. Why did I choose not?
1:22:08 Because I said it earlier. That accountability factor. Don't make me quit smoking my dope. Don't make me quit drinking. I don't want to do that. I want to keep it up. But can I have both? New age says you can. Because those are just experiential things. Yeah. Part of life. You know? Here, take the ayahuasca and the DMT while you're at it. Chris Mellon says that he's one of the government officials that has. I don't know if he's left or if he's still a part of it, but he's one of Lou Elizondo's friends. He's mentioned that the UAP activity has been increasing and getting more bold. Do you notice? And maybe I'm asking the wrong person because you're in South Korea now and they don't have as much going on down there.
1:22:58 But have you heard anything about what he said about this? Is this activity increasing at all? That's a difficult question. I can answer it, but it's difficult on how it's answered. Yes, it's increasing. The numbers show it. We went from before all this really hit the press. We were averaging maybe 300, 325, maybe 350 reports a month in the U.S. Now we're upwards of 600 a month in the U.S. Wow. Because of its visibility. Okay. And that's just the U.S. Other countries are having increases, too. Like I said, the Western modernized countries. Korea, I wouldn't classify as it's modernized, but not fully and not westernized.
1:23:53 Believe me, they want to be their own style. Definitely their own style. But, yeah, the question is, why are they up? Yeah. Because people want to be. They want to be somebody, and now they want to report something every time they see it, which, remember, 98% is just misidentified. Or is the activity actually increased? Probably a little bit of both. Because, remember, if this is coming from an open door, you ask for it. And, of course, it's going to increase. Because the more you hear about it, the more you want to know about it. So, like I said, probably a little bit of both. But it is higher. Fascinating. And so, this is the second to last question. Last question is probably one of my favorite. But this second to last question is a two question.
1:24:50 But it's the same question. I'll explain why. Through solely evidence-based reasoning and without any opinions or worldview changing your opinion, what do you see as the end goal of these things? And the second question is the same. Through your own personal opinion, what is the end goal of these things? So, the first one, I've got to go back to my first perspective and look at it. As a scientific point of view, no idea. Nobody does. The biggest question is, should we be in fear of it? Is it a national security issue? Yeah. Yeah. It could be. On that level. From a secular level.
1:25:43 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We can't protect ourselves from, yeah, it can be really scary. It could turn real nasty and we can't do anything about it. But looking at it from a Christian perspective, we know what this is. Right. We know it was prophesied. We know the outcome. And we know what it does to people. And what we have found the purpose of this to be, in every aspect, is anybody who opens himself up to this phenomenon, even in just curiosity, it leads their eyes away from the one true God. Right. That is the total outcome of this phenomenon. Devout believers have walked away from their belief in Jesus Christ because they got too deep into this phenomenon.
1:26:48 Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because they weren't given the answers that they should have been given. Wow. They didn't know where to go for the answers. They didn't know that there were answers. And I'm telling you, we got answers. Listen to us. We're trying to share them. They're there. The other aspect of this is, I said it was prophesied. Second Thessalonians 11 and 12. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:27:52 Yeah. Yeah. This is going to cost you eternity, this phenomenon, one way or the other. Either you're going to come to the truth on it, and you're going to be fined and grounded in a relationship with Jesus, or you're not. That's the outcome of this phenomenon. Now, is that a national security threat? It is certainly a threat to those who want to remain on this earth. Exactly. This is a whole lot bigger than little nasty gray aliens. Yeah, yeah. A whole lot bigger. And you know what? You thought they were scary? Eternal damnation is really scary. Yeah. So this is the last question.
1:28:50 What are some questions that you wish someone would ask? Or some important questions that people should be asking? And what are the answers? I think we went over one of the most important questions already. Can you think of anything that would be an important question that has been brought up in another interview? Or a very thought-provoking question that needs an answer, that people need to hear? The biggest one that needs to be asked right now, especially after you've heard this, what can I do to help? Because you can't walk away from this. Why do I say that? Because you may not be affected by this. You may think, I got nothing to do with this. This doesn't bother me.
1:29:46 It doesn't affect me. I don't deal with this stuff. Yeah, but your sons and daughters might be. Your nieces and nephews might be. Even your parents might. And this could be their eternal damnation, and you're sitting on the truth because you've just now got it. You know what this is. I'm giving you the evidence for it, the tools to be able to share it in every aspect. It's all free. We got it on our website. We've got a book out there that's got the whole thing spelled out. Sixty-plus testimonies in there to back it up as evidence to show somebody. Everything you need to help those people, your family and your friends, from being deceived, is in your hands.
1:30:44 What are you going to do with it? When are you going to ask, how can I help? That's the question that needs to be asked. Absolutely. I can't do this by myself. I've reached many, many, many people over 20-some years. But there's a world of people in hurt. There's a world of people being deceived by this. And the more it comes out in the press, the more the governments talk about it, the more going to be deceived. This delusion is called the strong delusion for a reason. This is not just going to be a fly-by-night event. This is going to be an end-of-life event. Right. End of all things. Man. Wow. Well, I am thrilled to speak with you on this.
1:31:36 It really is a pleasure. And I thank you so much for spending your time, your day, going and talking to me and all the other people that are watching this channel. Thank you so much. And where can we find you if we wanted to get a hold of your resources or if we wanted to watch your program? Real simple. My website is www. www.ce4research.com. Just like that. ce4research.com. And it'll take you to a brand-new website that I've been working on. I'm transferring all the testimonies from the old site over to this one. I've got a lot more links of peers that are working with me that you can go see and see their work into this, too. Fascinating, fascinating information I have now got on this new website.
1:32:36 Our new book, Piercing the Cosmic Veil, You Shall Not Be Afraid of the Terror by Night. Like I said, this is a thick one. It's got 60-plus never-before-shown testimonies that I put in the book. You can get this on Amazon, either in this giant paperback or in Kindle form if you want. Contact me personally. If you want to help, talk to me. I will teach you. I will teach you how to help other people come out of this. And you want to be busy doing something? You'll be busier than you could ever imagine. Because there are millions and millions and millions of people that need to hear this truth and this evidence for what it is. Reach me at ce4president at yahoo.com.
1:33:32 Even though I'm in Korea, drop me an email. I will talk to you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. If you're having these experiences, these abduction experiences, and you haven't stopped them, you need help. Get a hold of me. I'll work with you one-on-one. If you have stopped these experiences through the name and authority of Jesus Christ, the world needs to hear your testimony. Yes. Because how are the lost to come to the truth? Through the word of God and your testimony. The testimonies of these people's lives change through a relationship in Jesus Christ. From this horrible experience is the most powerful evidence in the world today of what's behind this phenomenon.
1:34:25 And there's never enough testimonies for some people. So bring them in. Let's keep them coming in. And that's a tool for you to use to reach the next person. YouTube channels. I've got two of them. We have a podcast that I need to get back up and running. I've just been busy trying to work on a couple of projects. But we'll get the podcast back on. It's on YouTube. It's called Alien Intruders-Piracy in the Cosmic Veil Show. And then I have a CE4 Research YouTube channel, which is just loaded with videos. All my talks over the years that I've ever videoed and filmed are up there free for you to see. My presentations from Roswell and everywhere else are up there. Interviews like this that I do, I post them up there on the YouTube channel so everybody can see them.
1:35:19 They're not all identical because I never prepare a talk. I let the Holy Spirit do it because he knows who's listening. I don't. And every talk is a little bit different because he knows who needs to hear what. So lots to have at your fingertips out there. You can spend eternity looking on the Internet at all this crazy stuff. But I've got a wealth of information that will teach you how to help people and how to turn this lie around and bring people to the truth in a relationship with Jesus Christ. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Joe. I appreciate it. Thank you for the opportunity to share. Thank you for asking the question.