0:00 Before I get started, I want to say clearly what this video is about and what it's not. Dr. Conrad Vine has publicly and explicitly said he is not starting a new denomination. What I am going to show you is, in his own words and in order, from grievance to theology of tithe to financial mechanisms to naming a movement to an invitation to join it. Then I'm going to let you decide what you're watching exactly. And one more thing before we begin, because I believe in doing this in the right order. I did not start with a video. I started with a letter. I wrote Dr. Vine directly, brother to brother. What I received back was a template response, a form letter, a reply, and I never heard from him again. What I did see was Dr. Vine appearing on a podcast after podcast, two hours at a time, discussing things on this very topic publicly. And now he's asking for our correspondence to stay between us, me and him. And I'm going to honor that. You will not hear me quote or characterize his letters tonight.
1:02 But I want you to know that the private road was tried first. When a teaching is preached publicly from pulpits and on podcasts, it's just fair. It's biblical to examine it publicly. That's what Paul did. That's what the Bereans did. And that's what I'm going to do here. And one note about how I'm doing it. Everything you see tonight comes from Dr. Vine's own sermons, the source material, the publicly available content, in context, timestamps, I've made arrangements with other YouTubers that we don't clip each other's content, and I intend to keep them, because that road goes south real fast. And my contention has never been with my brother on another channel. My concern is with a teaching, not with people. Test the teaching. That's the whole video. It starts with a diagnosis. In his sermon, Remnant, Respectable or Regime Church, Dr. Vine divides Adventism into two camps, faithful and connective.
1:57 And the two are convicted on one side, institutional and culture on the other side. And he points to another denomination as the picture of where it ends. So this is how I see, this is where we may be going here in the North American division, is very similar to the split that's taken place in the United Methodist Church, where you have the Bible Faithful Methodists, a formed new denomination, the Global Methodist Conference that's affiliated with the Southern Hemisphere Methodists, and the remainder of the United Methodist Church, in North America, have now become essentially a woke, ideological talking shop. He describes how the Bible Faithful Methodists form a new denomination, and the Global Methodist Conference, while the remainder of the United Methodist Church, in his own words, will probably go bankrupt because their tithe base has collapsed. Mark that. The example he reaches for is an actual denominational split in his sermons. And notice what killed the old body in his telling. Not doctrine, the tithe base. And that's the frame everything else builds on. Next comes the doctrinal move.
3:04 In a true and free sermon, he says, official Adventism believes that tithe belongs to the conference, regardless of whether they uphold biblical truth or not. True and free Adventists believe that by tithe belongs to Christ, the head of the church, and it is to be returned wherever the Holy Spirit directs the return of that tithe. Notice what just happened. The storehouse principle got reassigned. To the unfaithful column. And the individual redirection got reassigned to the faithful column. And here's what I'd ask you to notice. In neither sermon does he offer a single biblical example of God's people withholding or rerouting tithe to disciplined leadership. And we actually cover that in a website called titheanswers.com. You should go there if you want to know the truth behind this movement that's happening to destroy your beloved church. titheanswers.com. So the justification is never a text.
4:01 It's a leverage. And he says the leverage part out loud. And this is where it stops being abstract. He puts a condition on it. Listen to the caveat, because I want you to hear fairly. But then he describes the machine in detail. If the GC in the future supports future mandates over the consciences of mandates, I think we are well within our rights to establish a parachurch movement within the Adventist church. And then the committee allocates that tithe to conferences who are faithful to scripture. And that way, the conferences that go woke will go broke. A lay conference incorporated collecting tithes across the whole North American division. A committee deciding which conferences deserve funding. He knows exactly how this lands because he says so himself. When you touch the question of tithe, this is the sacred nerve in the Adventist church. He goes on. I believe that someone somewhere will take the first steps to establish a parachurch movement, and we'll say with modern banking and modern legal systems, we don't need the conference union division GC hierarchy.
5:04 We can collect the tithes ourselves and allocate them to the conferences that are faithful to scripture. It's a revolutionary idea. It's kind of crossing the Rubicon from many administrators perspective. That's Caesar's phrase for the point of no return. And notice the passive voice. Someone somewhere will take the first steps. Not I will, but the blueprints being read aloud from the pulpit came from somewhere. Now, the movement needs a name in the true and free sermon. Dr. Vine tells the genuinely moving story of the true and free Adventist who suffered under the Soviet persecution. Their story deserves to be told. And I have no quarrel with honoring them. But watch what he does with the name. He lifts it out of the Soviet history and applies it to North America today with the general conference cast as the symbol of the Soviet compromised church laid back then.
6:00 He says, I believe that sooner or later there is going to be a true and free Adventism once again. Not a denomination, but a movement. It may start as lay reform movement within Adventism today. People go to their regular Sabbath morning churches on Sabbath morning. There's his disclaimer, not a denomination, but a movement. I told you I'd play it and I want you to weigh it honestly, but keep listening. To how he describes the movement, he raises the possibility of an underground movement without legal recognition. I believe there is coming in our church the possibility of an underground movement without legal recognition. In true and free Adventism, we'll be worshiping in private homes or in public facilities. And more and more of my preaching is in public facilities or in other churches. Now, here's the rhetorical move I most want you to recognize because it's subtle.
6:55 He doesn't call for a split. He predicts one as inevitable history while disclaiming any desire for it. He says nobody wishes for new true and free Advent movement again. I love our Adventist movement. I was born into it, but this may well happen again. It may well be necessary again. This is not sustainable. Spiritual balkanization will ultimately lead to organizational balkanization and financial balkanization. I'm not promoting this. I'm just saying this is what history teaches us is likely to happen. I'm not promoting this. Take that at face value, if you wish. But ask yourself, if a man names a movement, supplies its theology of tithe, designs its funding mechanism, describes its worship structure, and then declares its arrival inevitable, what exactly is left to promote?
7:51 Because the sermon doesn't end with a prediction. It ends with a call. I believe that God will call a new lay movement within Adventism to be faithful to the calling God gave us as a movement. He's deliberately echoing our own origin history in 1844, the pioneers. He's framing this not as a schism, but as a restoration. That is exactly how every offshoot in Adventist history framed itself. And then comes the direct appeal. The only question is how? The only question is when? And more importantly, are you going to be part of that faithful movement? That is not a historian describing the past. That is a recruitment. Are you going to be part of it? And finally, his own declaration of identity. I'm a member of the Adventist Church.
8:40 I'm a privileged to be a member of the Adventist Church. But in my heart, I'm also a true and free Adventist. My first loyalty is to Christ. A member on paper, a true and free Adventist in his heart. His words. So let me give you a fair conclusion, because I promised not to twist anything here. Has Conrad Vine announced a new church? No. Has explicitly denied planning a denomination. And those denials are on the record. But here is what these two sermons contain in sequence. A church divided into faithful and unfaithful camps, a real denominational split held up as a template or the template, one decided by the tithe base and a redefinition of the tithe from the storehouse to wherever the individual feels directed, a detailed incorporation mechanism for collecting tithe outside the conference so that the conferences that go woke go broke, a name restructured from history, separate worship described, inevitability declared, and a closing question. Will you be part of it? You don't have to conclude that he's planning an offshoot. The transcripts don't prove intense, and I won't claim they do. But you should recognize what you're being handed here. Every component. A movement needs assembled in the pulpit, waiting for the trigger condition he himself named.
10:03 And here's my concern for you, church family. And it's about the tithe, because that's the sacred nerve. And he himself said so. In all the scripture, tithe is never once used as a weapon to force change on leadership. When Israel's leaders failed and they failed spectacularly, God sent prophets with a message, not members with a ledger. Malachi's chapter three rebukes the withholding of tithe from the storehouse. It never authorized it as a pressure tactic. Even under corrupt religious leadership, Jesus told the people to practice what the scribes taught while rejecting their example. He never told anyone to defund the temple. Reform in God's church has always come through the straight testimony, through prayer, through faithful presence, not through financial siege. When someone tells you your tithe is a lever and that's if you don't do it, it's a sin. And for the verse, there isn't one. And that question leads me to something a little more unusual.
11:02 And I want to do it to myself first. There's a question I'd ask every believer to sit with for a second. Where in the Bible does God authorize tithe to be given to a personal ministry? Not offerings. Offerings are free. They're free to push wherever you want. And scripture is full of free will giving. Malachi says, bring it into the storehouse. Numbers says it sustained the Levites, the appointed, organized ministry of God's people. Search as long as you like. You will not find a verse where the tithe follows a channel, not one. So let me go first. Orion Media Ministry and this channel under it do not knowingly accept tithe. And if you have ever sent us tithe, hear me plainly. I'm grateful for your heart, but please redirect it to the storehouse, your local conference or somewhere that is supported inside the church.
11:54 Like White said in the Watson letter, she sent it by divine inspiration to pastors that were doing the will of God, anointed pastors, ordained pastors in the church, the retired ones that had no income due to their retirement. If you see something in a ministry that's doing good for the community, I invite you to share freely your offerings really and cheerfully after your tithe is where God has asked it to be and now the invitation. And it is an invitation. It's not an accusation to every independent ministry, every self-supporting work, every channel, every podcast in this space, including those far bigger than mine. Say it out loud. One sentence on your broadcast. We do not knowingly accept tithe. Return your tithe to the storehouse and support us with your offerings. That's it. My fear is that a lot of people won't be saying this because they are doing something they know is wrong.
12:51 And that's why they won't say it. But that's all you have to say. It costs nothing. If it's already true. It protects your ministry from every accusation. It protects the givers conscience. And it keeps all of us honest in an hour when tithe is being called a lever. I'm not naming anyone and I honor these men. I honor my friends and my brothers and sisters. I honor the pastors, the ones that have been and the ones that will be. And I take them at their word. But think about the current here. Teaching that sends tithe wherever the spirit directs the individual creates a flow and that flow runs naturally towards the very ministries doing the teaching. The men behind those ministries may never have intended that. So give them a chance to close the loop themselves. If your favorite ministry says it, praise God. Tell them thank you. And until they say it, keep your tithe where the Bible puts it. So before I close, I want to leave the students among you with one more thing to weigh.
13:46 In 1904, during the Kellogg crisis, Ellen White wrote a warning that many of you know, listen to it carefully. The enemy of souls has sought to bring the supposition that a great reformation was taking place among Seventh-day Adventists and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as pillars of our faith and engaging in a process of reorganization. And then she asked a question. Who has the authority to begin such movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience attested to by the miraculous workings of the Holy Spirit. Now, I want to be careful here because this passage gets thrown around quite loosely in the church. And I promised you precision on this video. So let me tell you honestly where this fits and where it doesn't. The living temple that Kellogg taught was spiritualistic theories about the personality of God. Error swept away the sanctuary and the pillars. And Dr. Vine is not currently doing that, that I can tell.
14:47 He affirms the fundamental beliefs, his position himself as a defender of the pillars and not a destroyer of them. And that's that's why I have no problem with him, only with the tithe. I'll not stand here and flatly declare someone is a part of the Omega apostasy. White didn't give us that passage so we can pin it on people like a badge. In fairness, his supporters aim this very quote at the church leadership. Both sides claim it. That alone should make us slow to wield it. But here is where the pattern does fit and where every student of the passage should pay attention. Notice what Sister White said the danger would look like. Not open rebellion, not obvious apostasy, a great reformation, a movement promising to restore what the church had lost. Led by who? Well, in 1904, it was led by the most respected, the most credentialed, the most sincerely admired man in Adventism.
15:40 And what would it produce? Well, her words, a process of reorganization. A new organization will be established. Nothing would be allowed to stand in its way of the new movement. A promised reform, a respected leader, a reorganization of structure and finances, a new movement claiming the mantle of the original. That is the shape she warned about. The danger comes dressed as revival. And so her question is the one I'm leaving with you tonight. Not an accusation, but as the test you should apply to every voice, including mine. Who has the authority to begin such movement? And notice one last thing. Ellen White faced that crisis. What was the command she received? Meet it from inside the ship. And what I don't see is the command she received. What I don't see today is I don't see ministries meeting it. I think it's fascinating because I wonder why.
16:31 Many some ministries have been damaged by stipulations, by medical insinuations or demands. Maybe they have been damaged by movements that shouldn't be there in the church. And that's understandable. But what I think we have going on right now is something much bigger than that. That's going to separate us as a people. And I believe what we have to do right now is press together. This is not a time to divide into a bunch of single categories. And by me bringing this up is the goal. And we bring this up is to press us back together. Don't divide. Press together. See, White confronted the error. She rebuked leaders to their faces when they failed. She never once left the organization body or told the people to redirect their tithe to force the outcome. Her weapon was the testimony, not the treasury.
17:22 So study it for yourself. Read series B. Number two, test what he says. Test what I say and hold firmly, as she wrote, to the fundamental principles that are based upon the unquestionable authority. My prayer is that you will be part of the movement God actually started. The one we were both born into. The one who has wheat and tares in it that we are correcting. And I hope that you will pray for our leaders instead of preparing to starve them. God bless you. I hope to see you next time.