0:01 okay we're gonna get this rolling here i thought it'd be interesting tonight to kind of go over what um the live stream from doug bachelor talking about charlie kirk talking about uh kirk cameron talking about all the things that are happening because there seems to be a lot of stuff going on right now and i i i thought we'd just tune in and kind of see what's going on um it should be going live here fairly soon let's see what is going on maybe i don't have it working correctly friday night live it's called and uh you guys can probably see this yourself but it'd be fun to kind of do a little watch along because i don't think uh yeah it would be uh bad to restream this the whole goal is to get the message out as far and wide as possible and i think it'd be interesting to actually uh tune in oh they're going right now i do believe that the shabbat or the sabbath uh is the mystery the secret that so many christians overlook i'll tell you my own life i turn off my phone on friday night it goes back on on sunday when i fly back it is all family all saturday for six days you shall work on the seventh day you shall rest let's remember what the bible says about the sabbath god himself rested on the seventh day it is the only of the ten commandments which is a ritual is it hello friends welcome to a very special amazing facts friday night live we are having this program right now because well there's been some seismic changes in the christian world that are really shaking things up in the last week that we thought we should talk about one of them is the release of charlie kirk's final book that he wrote called stop in the name of god why honoring the sabbath will transform your life and the second thing is evangelist actor christian speaker kirk cameron came out this week explaining that he no longer believes in an ever-burning hell but believes more in annihilation annihilation ism and so we're going to be talking about these two things that are just entering the discussion across the country right now and the things that we've been talking about at amazing facts for 60 years now those of you who saw us advertise this program saw that i was going to invite pastor jean ross with us pastor ross called me tonight and uh he caught a cold and his voice had a blowout and it just so happened i went to play racquetball this afternoon with pastor alden ho a stranger you've done bible answers live with us i said alden are you busy tonight and he was nice nice enough to come in and co-host so thank you alden for being here and he's going to help us field questions if you have questions regarding the topics we're talking about tonight we've got like a one-hour program then we're going to put a qr code up on the screen we'll do that now get your phone out you know how to aim the phone at the uh the square there and it'll take you to a website where at the slido website you just enter some information you can ask questions you can rate questions they're going to appear on pastor ho's ipad and in almost real time we'll be able to get your bible questions but like to begin with a word of prayer as we enter these very important subjects loving lord as we talk about the word the truth and just what's happening in the national conscience on these important issues we pray that you'll bless with your spirit and that you might be glorified in all that happens in this program we pray in jesus name again we want to welcome those who are watching right now we're broadcasting on aftv on facebook youtube plus the amazing facts radio app you can download it'll be broadcast there it's going to be on um roku and uh all of our formats i'm telling you now because it we're going to say some stuff i think you'll find very interesting you might want to text or call your friends during this broadcast and say are you watching the amazing facts live program right now so um pastor ho you didn't get a chance to read the book because i just talked to you this afternoon uh first thing let me tell you why i think this is so important this is from wall street journal i think it was written yesterday charlie kirk's newest book is a hit and out of stock on amazon the late conservative activist book published tuesday is about honoring the sabbath kirk compiled the book a month before he was in the
4:44 hospital he was shot and killed while speaking at utah valley university in september his death has sparked a spiritual awakening with a surge in bible sales and church attendance especially among young people so this is not i know charlie kirk had a lot of very strong political opinions this is not a program that's going to delve into that i think that everybody would agree that he was a national influencer and especially after his murder assassination it filled the airwaves his funeral drew virtually all of the primary leaders in our country i was telling somebody that if our enemies had dropped a bomb on the phoenix stadium during that time it would have wiped out the u.s government so this is a very visible person who has written a book on a subject that i first discovered over 50 years ago about the sabbath and i i was very eager we've been telling people about the sabbath truth and the benefits of the sabbath my whole life and i'm a seventh-day adventist christian but uh not because anyone in my family was i just felt compelled from the scriptures so first let me give you a few thoughts and jump in alden if you have something to share or if you have some relevant questions but let me first um tell you that i was blessed by the book he comes at the sabbath from a lot of uh angles and arguments i've understood for years but there was some fresh information and perspectives i've never thought about that are great that i'll probably incorporate into my sabbath presentations he talks first about coming from a biblical perspective that god is a creator that we did not evolve he talks about the benefits of sabbath keeping i was uh really impressed that when i got down to page 115 he talks about the sabbath improving your health he dedicates five pages to seventh-day adventist and how documentation is pro has shown that and he says you know i don't agree with everything they believe but he's gone to a function with them and visited and studied and said you cannot deny that the evidence is in according to the blue zones they live longer loma linda is one of the blue zones where they've got more centenarians in fact i think you were down there i was down there this week visiting those who support the ministry and about 10 years ago i was asked by an adventist magazine to go there and photograph the sabbath and i was like oh my god i'm going to go there and photograph the sabbath and i'm going to go there and i'm going to go there and i'm going to go there and spend time with the centenarians so i got to interview them and it was incredible the sharpness all of them were over 100 all of them yeah people have seen our program we did here with dr scharfenberg who by the way is still alive and well and he's 101 now yeah and um so you know one of it one of the reasons it would be the health message in the diet right but sabbath they found makes a difference he also talks about another general study among women that women who weekly attend worship services during the course of the study this was done by a chan institute had 33 percent less death during that time so one of the other things that said here that when it came to just happiness that uh one study of 2017 2018 global church member survey revealed 88 percent of adventists around the world described themselves as happy yet a similar study in north america among general americans only 44 percent described themselves as being satisfied with their personal life so it contributes to your health your happiness your longevity everything yeah he talks about you know if if you care about the people that work for you in the sabbath commandment it says your servant should rest what about your eternal life and he talks about eternity he talks about if you care about animals because it says your your ox and your donkey shall rest your ox and your donkey shall rest your ox and your donkey shall rest and so he covers a lot of beautiful principles about uh science in uh the um the subject of the sabbath and i've got a few notes i took some notes on the book that i've got a little cheat sheet i'm going to use here or i'm going to forget something but um i should mention he dedicates the book to dennis prager and many people have seen the videos done prager institute and the prager university i should say and dennis prager who is a jew i've met before at a religious convention um he had a serious fall and is struggling with paralysis right now but it's still mentally very sharp and so he dedicated the book to dennis prager who is jewish who introduced him first to the sabbath then other pastors along the way said charlie you're working too long hard you're going
9:30 to burn out you need to take a day have you read what the bible says about the sabbath isn't prager jewish kept sunday dennis prager kept saturday so charlie said all right god's trying to tell me i'm going to find out what the bible says and he did his own study and very sharp mind so he he just he looked at the arguments he's got a whole section where he goes against the typical evangelical arguments that either downplay the sabbath or say we're now under grace we don't need to keep the sabbath anymore and he does a good job of basically cutting that off at the knees and saying that doesn't hold water biblically well our questions are actually piling up right now this ties really good into what you're going on goes perfectly. And it says, how does Charlie Kirk's understanding of the Sabbath compare with the biblical Sabbath as taught in the scripture? That was my question. I think that Charlie Kirk does a great job explaining the blessings and benefits of taking a day of rest. And let me just, this is how I'd go ahead and answer that. He talks about the logic for Sabbath keeping that you just can't go 24-7. He shares his personal journey. He talks about the importance of keeping the Sabbath for your servants and animals. He goes through some of the common evangelical arguments. He presents compelling reasons for social, emotional, physical well-being in Sabbath keeping. And he approaches the importance of it for your family. The area where I would say I respectfully wish that he had gone a little further is he basically says, keeping a Sabbath. He did not say keep the Sabbath. Now, he kept the seventh day, typically. They made exceptions. But a lot of what he says had to do with turning off and unplugging, turning off your screen. He turns off his phone. I text people happy Sabbath on Sabbath.
11:27 I don't take business calls. I don't do business. But he was so involved with the screen time and sees all these young people, they just can't get off their phones. He spends a lot of time in the book talking about unplugging, disconnecting, spend time with your family where you're focused. You're not kind of listening to them with one ear and looking at your most recent Facebook post. And so a lot of time is dedicated to the importance of family. So two things. One is he talks about keeping a Sabbath. And I don't think that Charlie spends enough time in the book talking about what it says about corporate worship, that it's not just a day for rest and unplugging. That it was a day to come together. Now, let me give you a few verses on this very quickly. Someone's asking about Bible questions. Leviticus 23, verse three. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. That word convocation means convene, assemble. You shall do no work on it. It is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings. That means you're to keep it in home. You're also to keep it when you convene. There's a story many people miss when Elisha resurrects the boy of the Shunammite woman. And she tells her husband, I'm going to see the man of God. He said, why are you going to see him now? It's not the new moon or the Sabbath. That's because they would go together, listen to the prophet, preach and teach. The Levites, that's when they would get the towns together in the synagogue and they teach and preach. Jesus, as his custom was, he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath.
13:08 So I wish he had said something about the importance of corporate worship with other believers. And God didn't say he blessed a day. In Genesis chapter two, in the Ten Commandments, Exodus chapter 20, it says he blessed the seventh day. The word the is very important. It's a definite article. The Bible does not leave it open for us to pick our blessed day. Exactly. God says he's blessed today. But sometimes, you know, for those who keep the Sabbath, we may have the day correct, but the problem is sometimes the way we keep it, that we're in error. Yeah. You can, and the Pharisees did that. You know, they killed Jesus and ran home to keep the Sabbath. They obviously had the wrong spirit. Now there's got to be a lot of people that have questions about the Sabbath day. So before we get too much deeper, we want to offer you this free offer here. And we've got this free offer called Remembering the Sabbath Day, Finding the Missing Piece.
14:08 And if you'd like this offer, well, we encourage you, if you're in the U.S., text S-H- I don't want to interrupt them, but yeah, you can get that too. It's just their commercial. It's not a purchase or anything. You can get that. And it's actually a really good magazine. But I do want to say that you can submit questions by that little QR code. That's what I did. I think there's a couple of questions in there. I really wish they would have put my name in there and said, oh yeah, this was submitted by Bradley Strange, but I don't think they would have. Anyway, the bottom right down here is where you can see those questions being submitted. Well, that's an interesting question. Let me go to the end of the book, if I could. And by the way, I would recommend the book, because I think that it does exalt a biblical principle. One of these questions, questions are piling up, but this one is one of the popular ones, which probably should ask this at the end, but do you think, you know, that there's a blessing connected with it? Well, that's an interesting question. Let me go to the end of the book, if I could. And by the way, I would recommend the book, because I think that it does exalt a biblical principle that is good, and there's a blessing in that. You know, even for people who may not understand all the laws and all the teachings, every teaching of truth you embrace, there's a blessing connected with it.
15:38 Now, in chapter 13, in his conclusion, this kind of jumped out at me, and this is page 259. Now, imagine if America began to honor the Sabbath again. Well, that got my attention. He's appealing to the country. Imagine if America began to honor the Sabbath again, not merely as a personal spiritual practice, but as a national cultural rhythm. So, calling for a national cultural rhythm, he's saying it should be part of the natural cultural. You know, that goes back to the times of Puritans, where they basically had these blue laws and said that you could be imprisoned if you didn't keep it. It was part of the cultural rhythm. Now, I don't think we're at that point now. But the blue laws still exist. Well, you know what's going to happen is, I'm almost certain there are going to be more people attending worship services weekly as a result of his book. More Sunday keepers are going to be showing up Sunday saying it is the Sabbath. They may be unplugging their phones and they may stop shopping. But I don't see from his book anybody switching from Sunday to Saturday. So, let me finish reading this because I'm answering that question. And then you go to the next page. I'm jumping down a paragraph. And this is page 260 in Charlie's book. The entire week would once again be centered around the holy, the divine, the beautiful, the sacred. Our nation would regain a core moral spiritual center. But he says, picture Saturday or Sunday.
17:08 And he specifically says, it doesn't matter what day. And that was on 259. Going now to 261. And slowly, the soul of our nation. So, as you read the conclusion, it's an appeal for a national revival in Sabbath keeping. But he basically says a seventh day, not the seventh day. Now, I admire that he picked the seventh day because he said it's biblical. But I think he could have gone a little farther. Charlie Kirk was not afraid to ruffle feathers. That's right. He spoke up against cultural norms. But I wish he'd gone a little further and just did a shout out to Sunday keeping Christians and said, bless your heart. I believe you love the Lord. But God doesn't say keep the first day. He says keep the seventh day. Well, this leads to the next question. But today when I was, before we played racquetball, I went and got my car aligned. And the guy that was doing the alignment, we started talking about Charlie Kirk and things. And he says, you know, at his church, after Charlie Kirk was assassinated, killed. And he said, church attendance jumped 30%. So, this leads to the question, does Kirk's presenting the Sabbath as keeping a commandment of God or is it more of... No, sorry, it wasn't that question. Why do many traditions observe Sunday instead of Saturday? And how do you think this new book will change the view, or will it?
18:28 I don't think the new book's going to do a lot to change people from Sunday keeping the first day to the seventh day. That's why we're doing this program. We're saying, this book is great. This book is a perfect description, right? great in drawing attention to the Sabbath truth, it needed to go one more step and say the seventh day. Now, Charlie says the seventh day, but then he seems to open it up and say a seventh day. But he admits that God says the seventh day. Now, notice it's not just about the blessings to you. In the command, it says that God rested that day, God blessed that day, and God made the seventh day holy. So three times it says in Genesis chapter two, the seventh day, the seventh day, the seventh day, he blessed it, he rested, he made it holy. God says, I picked a particular day and I'm commanding you to remember the day I pick, not a day. And that's the difference. So if people are going to be coming together for worship, does everybody get to say, well, my Sabbath is going to be Tuesday and we're all going to gather that day. By the way, Hebrews 10, 24, let us not forsake the assembling of ourselves together. That's part of it. Another question? So the question then when you're talking about the day, versus a day, what makes the specific day we observe so important? Does prophecy say anything about this? Yeah, I think that there's going to be a command in the last days to worship the image of the beast. The Bible tells us that in the days of Daniel, Daniel chapter three, there was a government law that everybody needed to break the second commandment and worship a big golden idol that Nebuchadnezzar set up. So Nebuchadnezzar and Abednego needed to decide, are we going to obey the commandment of God or the government law? Whoever bowed down and did not worship, whoever did not bow down and worship, they were going to be killed. And that's, that hearkens to Revelation 13. Then you get to Daniel six, the government, which is now Persia, makes a law that everybody needs to pray to the king for 30 days. That breaks the first commandment. Daniel wouldn't do it. He went to the lion's den and he was delivered. Both Daniel six, Daniel, chapter three, they're delivered by the Lord. And the angel of the Lord comes and Jesus comes.
20:42 In the last days, the devil's going to go through the 10 commandments. He's going to take the fourth commandment. So everybody's got to, it's very sneaky this time. He says, you got to worship. You can worship God, but not the seventh day. Do it the first day. See how subtle that is? It's very subtle. So speaking of the subtlety, another question that pops up, ties into this is, do you think, because the book came out after Charlie died. Right. So the question is, do you think that the book, it was manipulated or edited before it's released? Because there are some things like in parentheses, lots of things. I'll ask a question about that. I would say, absolutely. I'm an author and I've sent books off to publishers and they have a lot of freedom in the editing process. And you can be sure that the editors have been through the book and they may have taken, Charlie may have had some things in there that were spoken more strongly that were softened, or they may have beefed up other things that he said differently. The editors do make changes. I just know that for a fact. And as I was reading the book, it almost looked to me like the book went through an AI program that added adjectives and beautified the language. I just kept seeing a lot of beautiful adjectives that when I listened to Charlie Kirk speak on his YouTubes, not all those words were in the vocabulary that I'm finding in the book. Flowery. Yeah. So there's, the editor may have done that and editors are using AI now.
22:07 I'm sure that there's some editing, but the book is well written. Yeah. And it's very impactful about the importance of keeping the Sabbath. But those two points I wish had been clear. This one brings up a very interesting point. Why are you even discussing about Charlie Kirk, what he believed? Because there were a lot of great men that believed different things. Why him? Well, I'm saying, I think it's important because first of all, it's a bestseller, which means it's affecting the nation. It's an international conversation right now that he filled the headlines, both with some of the controversial things that he said, and then his assassination and his funeral filled the headlines. It was nonstop wall-to-wall coverage. So he became a national, and you could even say an international personality, whether, regardless of his political views, we're not here advocating for or against his political views. I'm just saying this very visible person wrote a book on that subject, and that book became, it was his last act, the last thing he wrote is about resting. It almost seemed as though the devil was involved in cutting him down before he could have taken it to the next step. That's true. Someone's asking here, do you believe his wife follows and believes in the Sabbath as well? No. Oh, she says she does. Erica is on tape saying that, you know, she counted it as family time, a seventh day. Oh, a seventh day. It was a family day. They'd turn off their phones. I don't know if they both kept it the same way. No. They come from different religious persuasions, but... She's Catholic. Yeah, she's out promoting the book right now.
23:53 That's true. Yeah. Another person's asking why we are aware of the Protestant America is a false prophet. Why is Charlie Kirk's exposure of the Sabbath mean so much to Seventh-day Adventists and allows to mix our beliefs? Well, what I think is it becomes a great opportunity when people begin talking about the Sabbath truth, even if they may not have everything right. Boy, it makes it so easy to pick up the discussion. And I was sad, Pastor Alden, as I read the book. You know, you're reading a man's book. And I should add, he did a program in Arizona, and I was invited to speak at the program where he talked about the Sabbath, and it conflicted with our creation summit, and I could not go. I regret that, you know, I didn't get to meet him because I wish I could have studied with him and said, this is great. Praise the Lord. That was probably Wisdom Pearls, the one I just spoke at. I thought about this and this and this, and I really regret that I didn't have that opportunity. Someone who attended that conference said he watched Amazing Facts, which I'm always thrilled to hear that. Now, we're not just going to talk about Charlie Kirk tonight, but let's take a couple more questions. There's a lot going on. The way Charlie kept the Sabbath, is that the way we should keep the Sabbath as Sabbath keepers who want to honor God? Well, I think we need to keep the Sabbath the way the Bible says. Now, some things that may not have been addressed, you know, I agree where he says turning off secular screens.
25:27 You know, we do Christian media. It's Sabbath right now at this program. We're broadcasting, we're hoping that people are tuning into the spiritual information. We broadcast our services live. It's a screen, and you can watch it on your phone. He really kind of turned off his phone totally. The Bible doesn't really teach that. They didn't have cell phones in the Bible, so you're not going to find a command on that. Things about not shopping, not doing secular things, not doing your regular work, and gathering together for worship. Those are things that I think that... Seeking your own enjoyment. Yeah. Isaiah talks about doing your own pleasure. Yeah. You don't think you shouldn't be involved in, you know, sports and things. On the Sabbath, it's holy time with God, a time for collective worship. It's a time for fellowship, visit the sick, do Bible studies, a little physical rest, and a family time as well. Get out in nature. I like this one that comes up. Can we as a church learn something from Charlie's boldness in proclaiming his conviction regarding the Sabbath? Amen. You know, Paul says that we should pray for him that he would be bold. And when the disciples, I think it's Acts chapter...
26:36 Acts chapter four, when they knelt together, they prayed and said, Lord, give your servants boldness. And so we should not be intimidated by the culture. And I think that's one reason he was popular, whether you agree or disagree. He was very bold about sharing what his convictions were. And it turned out that a lot of people lined up with him. And that's why he became a very powerful influencer, I guess, principally on the internet. But somebody's saying here, something strange is he's speaking about Sabbath rest, with his family, but his wife, after his death, is telling people to rest on Sunday. Yeah, what's that all about? I think that they're trying to appeal to everybody. I think that they felt if they had told people it had to be the seventh day, they would have been alienated. So they said, well, it has to be a seventh day. And I might add, Billy Graham, when he traveled around during the first, oh, 80% of his public ministry, he told churches everywhere, I heard him.
27:36 We heard him here in Sacramento, oh, 30 years ago. And he said, keep the Ten Commandments. And he said, a seventh day. Yeah. You know, Billy Graham knew that there were Seventh-day Adventists watching him and other Sabbath-keeping congregations. And so he would say, this weekend, when you go to church. And so he was very cautious to try to include as many different churches he could in his evangelism with general Christianity. So that's a mistake. I think a lot of people, people have made is they just say, keep a seventh day. Now, we have a commercial. We're going to set this up. A Sabbath. A day or the seventh day. I have a little commercial that talks about a website that Amazing Facts has. I know there are people watching that you may have questions on this. We can't cover this whole book in 35 minutes because we've got another subject we're going to talk about in a minute. But there's a website that Amazing Facts has, talking so fast, I'm stepping on my tongue. There's a website that Amazing Facts has called SabbathTruth.org.
28:36 It's a good website. But I'm going to turn down the commercials because everyone that needs to hear it, needs to hear that you can go to that Sabbath Truth website to learn more about the Sabbath Truth. But, and this little video, they have about it. He's going to, I think, talk about—by the way, if you're just joining us, this is a live stream we're watching. It's a little bit behind because I had to stop it to try and make sure audio was working before I did the live stream. Yeah, it is. It's a little bit behind because I had to stop it to try and make sure audio was working before I did the live stream. But, we, if you're just joining us, this is a live stream we're watching. We talked about this a little bit, but I'm going through Charlie Kirk's book right now, and I'm understanding everything that he has to say about this. We're going to go and do a detailed dive into it. I'm about a quarter way through right now. I'm a slow reader, but we're digging in. But I was curious to see what Doug, Pastor Doug, my former boss, thinks about it. And here we're back. This Friday Night Live of Amazing Facts presents.
29:36 Come on. And we're talking a little bit about some of the seismic changes that are just, there's been an earthquake in Christianity dealing with a couple of doctrines that we have taught and believed for all of our Christian existence that have just come to the forefront in the last two weeks and are really rattling things. So we're jumping up and basically saying, oh, please study this. Study it further. Praise the Lord for those who are speaking up. We're very thankful that Charlie, Kirk did put out a book on the Sabbath that got more people studying the subject of the Sabbath. And we encourage them to go to our website. We have a special offer. Show them the magazine again, Pastor Alden. This magazine is the Remembering the Sabbath, Finding the Missing Piece. And it's not piece like in a puzzle, but the piece that you can only have in your heart. And you can get this if you are in the U.S.
30:29 Text Sabbath 1225 to the number 40544. And you can take a picture with your phone. You can take a picture with your phone of the QR code on the screen and get the offer that we have there. All right. One or two more questions about Charlie Kirk, and then we're going to do a little shift. This one's a very interesting one. It's almost like splitting hairs, but does Kirk present Sabbath keeping as command of God or an expression of God's own nature? Oh, that was my question. He does present it as a command. It's in the title when he says, stop in the name of God. And he makes, he's got a chapter where he says, this is not a suggestion that God makes. It's a commandment. And, you know, if we're going to be Bible Christians, he's commanding this because he loves us for our benefit. And, but he expresses it as a commandment. And he says, we're designed where, you know, we don't function properly without the Sabbath rest, which is true.
31:23 It's all true. But I think as we submit to God, we do it the way he said and the day he said. That's true. So with everything that went on with Charlie Kirk, his assassination, his book, do you feel that God could be used? God could have used him? To wake us up? Well, I do think that many people were awakened. You know, I'm thrilled that they say more Bibles are selling. Okay, that's an easy question. The answer is yes. I'm just going to turn down for a second and read a quote from his book here. It says, God is not the author. This is from Charlie Kirk's book of moral laws in the sense of that a legislature is the author of laws from his, from the state. They are not mere judgments of God, but expressions of his own name. That's what he feels about the commandments. That's why I asked Doug that question. That's from page 27. I was curious if Kirk felt that way. Anyway, we'll get back into the program. That was the real answer.
32:19 Because I think a lot of churches have drifted. Charlie Kirk was in the right direction when he said we need to return to the Sabbath. You know, Martin Luther, he brought the church out of a lot of darkness with the Protestant Reformation. But he didn't bring them all the way out. He didn't understand baptism by immersion. He didn't understand that people are not. Burning in hell as soon as they die and some other doctrines. But he brought people out of a lot of darkness. And so God uses people to bring others back to the Bible. And so I should think we should embrace that, which is probably a good segue for the next thing I want to talk about. We don't have this on our title or on the backdrop here. But another very well-known Christian personality, Kurt Cameron. The. Actor, pastor, Christian influencer. He's got millions of followers on Facebook and has millions of viewers of his YouTube channel.
33:15 He's come out recently and said that he no longer believes that he can ascribe to the eternal physical burning in hell. Oh, Kurt Cameron. Yeah. Which I have been saying for 50 years. And I said, praise the Lord. It is not biblical. There are some difficult verses. But we deal with. But if you were to do a balance and say, look at all the verses in the Bible that talk about the punishment of the wicked and take the verses that seem to talk about it. People are going to burn consciously in torment forever and ever and weigh them against the verses that say the wicked are going to be burnt up. They'll be consumed. They're going to die. They'll perish. They'll be no more. They'll vanish. There's no more pain. The overwhelming evidence is on the sign that there is a lake of fire. Everyone is punished according to what they deserve. And the Bible says they are consumed. They are devoured.
34:10 They perish. That's what Jesus said. They're burnt up. Jesus said, don't fear him who can hurt your body, but he can't hurt your soul. Fear him who can destroy soul and body. So we've got a little clip here from YouTube that Kurt Cameron did in his radio discussion. And we don't have time to do all 22 minutes, but just to give you an idea that after he aired this, boy, he got a lot of pushback. He did. He did. And we're going to show that whole thing. We'll do a watch party. And then brought that into Christianity. But that the Bible, particularly in the Old Testament, never talks about the eternality, immortality of the wicked souls. The only ones who have immortal souls are those who are granted... What? Yeah. So he said that might get cut off a little early. The only ones who have immortality, he's saying, are the ones who accept Jesus. Right. And again, he makes it very clear.
35:07 He makes it very clear that his position is shifted on this. And as a result of that, he is getting all kinds of pushback. I think I've got a couple of quotes here. Heads spin as Kurt Cameron gives up eternal conscious torment. Here's another one. Kurt Cameron, he's an American actor, author, evangelist, television host, documentarian and producer. He gained fame as a teen actor playing Mike Seaver on the ABC sitcom Growing Pains, a role for which he was nominated for. Two Golden Globe Awards. Kurt Cameron's view on hell is controversial, but I think he's right. That's Premier Christianity UK. Charisma magazine. Kurt Cameron reignites the debate over eternal punishment. You go through the YouTube now and there have been a lot of response. I think one of his friends, he often was appearing with a gentleman, Ray Comfort.
36:04 And I think we've got a little clip of that. They're distancing. They're distancing themselves now from Kurt Cameron because he's come out saying, you know, I don't think the Bible teaches that hell burns forever and ever, that 60 million years from now you will have just begun writhing in flames. So here's, I think, a little sample of that. Some of you have been asking whether or not Living Waters holds his position and whether or not Kirk still works with us in an official capacity. The answer is no. While we believe Kirk is sincere, we believe that conditional mortality and annihilationism are erroneous views and that the Bible teaches us that we are not alone. The Bible's clear teaching on hell is known as eternal conscious torment. We firmly believe that this is the only correct biblical view. Once again, we're releasing this video because we want to reaffirm that Living Waters does indeed hold to the biblical and historic Orthodox doctrine of conscious eternal torment.
36:57 All right. I want to go on record saying that I firmly believe the biblical view, the view taught by Jesus, Old and New Testament, is that the wicked are cast into a lake of fire. This is a second death. They are consumed. They are burnt up. Jesus says there's no more pain. There's no more suffering. There's no more sorrow. All things are made new. And that the wicked, you read Malachi chapter four, it says, Behold, the day is coming that will burn as an oven and all the proud and all that do wickedly will be stubble. The day that comes will burn them up. It will leave them neither root nor branch. It's just really clear. They will vanish into smoke. They'll be no more. You'll seek their place and it will not be. So eternal life. Jesus, you've got two choices. Believe eternal life. Do not believe. Perish. There are some difficult verses and I address all of those.
37:48 Go to, I've got a YouTube. Does hell burn forever? Does Doug Batchelor, does hell burn forever? Or I've got the final firestorm. There's a sermon. I go through the whole thing. Hell truth dot com or does it dot org? There's a lot of studies on that. Because for me, I used to go to a Catholic school. And I went to two different Catholic schools. And I went to Jewish schools. So I went to lots of different schools. But in the Catholic schools, when they talked about you die. And as soon as you die, it's not that you sleep until the resurrection of the judgment. You go immediately if you're bad. I knew where I was going. To a place where you're going to physically feel like you're burning. You're in darkness, but somehow you're dropped into molten fire and brimstone. And how exclusive. I don't want to see a mouse burn for a second. I don't want to see a mouse burn for a second. I don't want to see a mouse burn for a second.
38:37 How excruciating that would be for a minute. And to go into eternity feeling that pain forever and ever and ever for the sins. Picture a 13-year-old that dies lost. They've reached the age of accountability. They're going to burn the same as Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot or Stalin. They're going to burn. And that's called justice. The Bible doesn't teach that. You know, I find it interesting because you have Charlie Kirk. And now you've got Kirk Cameron. Yeah, it's an interesting coincidence. To play on that. The word Kirk means church. Did you know that? Does it really? It does, yeah. It's a Scottish word. But it's interesting. Kirk Cameron brings up Mr. Fudge. And you've got that wonderful movie that tells Mr. Fudge out there, too. Yeah, it tells a story about, I think, was it Edward Fudge?
39:26 Edward Fudge, who did believe originally in an ever-burning hell, but as he studied it and did a doctorate on it, and not only him, but a lot of Christian theologians, if you press them, they say, no, the Bible doesn't support that. Through the Dark Ages, people took advantage of the fear. You know, if you don't do what the church says, you're going to be burned forever and ever. And they exploited that the wrong way. John Stott, famous Christian theologian, said you cannot teach the eternal torment from the Bible. He believed in annihilationism. He believed in annihilationism. So. Some people say, well, what reason is there to turn from your sin if you're not going to burn forever? Well, there is a lake of fire. Yeah. The wicked do burn. And I don't know how long it'll be, but everyone gets a punishment according to what they deserve.
40:19 Yeah. Jesus said, he who knew his master's will and did not do it is beaten with many stripes. He who did not know is beaten with few stripes. There's varying rewards and varying punishment. So there is punishment. There's a lake of fire, and that's enough to regret it. But are people going to church for fire insurance? Because we're afraid that, oh, I've got to go to church or I'm going to get burned. That's like a man telling his wife, love me or I'm going to burn you. I mean, who wants to stay with a husband? So for people to say, I'm going to, I'm going to, I need to love God or he's going to burn me forever. That's not what the Bible teaches. But there are some that actually do that. Yeah. It's a sad situation. With all this, do you think by any chance that God bringing up the Sabbath and then we've got Kirk Cameron with. The state of the, or the hell. Is God giving us time to kind of prompt us to be able to say, hey, you might want to study this.
41:15 You might want to look into this. Well, that's why we're doing this program is we're hoping amazing facts. I just saw something today that according to ministry watch, amazing facts is like the 16th largest Christian. Okay. I'm going to answer that question because I wouldn't go straight into the amazing facts if I were him. Yes, I think so. Kirk Cameron and Charlie Kirk. They've done. They've done more work to push the message of truth out to the, so many people than the church I think has done in a year. And so I think it's very, very significant. This is amazing. What is, what has just happened right now? And I hope it continues and it's not twisted by Satan. Now back to amazing facts. That the wicked are burned up ultimately in the lake of fire that they're consumed. I'll talk to, I'll do a debate with Ray Comfort.
42:03 Yes. Yes. Let's do it. Let's talk about it. We'll open our Bible in a friendly way. We did that once with Steve Gregg talking about the Sabbath. Yeah, but no one knew what Steve Gregg was. It's what the Bible says. And so this stuff being out in the public right now, I'm thinking, well, praise the Lord. I've been wanting people to talk about these things and discover the truth. So these two prominent figures are coming out. One of them dealing with the immortality of the soul that, you know, the Bible says God and God only has immortality. We don't get immortality until the second coming. Then this mortal puts on immortality. And the idea of Sunday sacredness. Now, I just want to read you a little quote for our friends out there, any of our Adventist friends. There's a book called Great Controversy that was written, oh, what, 120 years ago, more than that.
42:55 And it says on page 588, Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. What's happening this week is those two things have become a national conversation among Christians. And I think that is very interesting. And it's very enlightening. I want to jump to a question somebody asked, which is tied into this. Could Charlie Kirk's assassination push the world towards a one world religion and promote Sunday as the Sabbath if people reject Saturday as Israel's Sabbath? Hmm. You know. I think whatever brings about the final events, it's going to be a series of steps. It's like cogs in a wheel. I think that it was a significant historical moment with Charlie Kirk's murder assassination and the visibility and attention it got.
43:52 And it brought to these subjects. So that will, I think, play a role. It's not going to be the only factor. There's probably many other factors that will be involved. You know, tomorrow. Who are watching the program right now are going to be going to church. And this is kind of fitting. Does Charlie Kirk's book present any truths about God's fourth commandment? And how do I navigate a conversation about this book with my local church? Well, yes, he does talk about it as a fourth commandment. He makes it very clear that this is a commandment of God. And he presents some excellent arguments. He presents some great sociological, family, psychological, scientific health. Arguments, humanitarian arguments. He does a very good, broad, sweeping push for the benefits of Sabbath keeping. And I think it's a great opportunity.
44:44 Now, the book, it's a bestseller now. In reality, this is a wave. Someone else is going to write a book that will be a bestseller eventually. So while it's on the top of the list and it will probably be there for a few weeks, I think you've got a golden opportunity to bring up the Sabbath subject with your friends. And say, yes, we do need to keep the Sabbath day. And it's a blessing. And it's not just a Sabbath day. God says, the Sabbath day. And it's not just family time and no screen time. It's corporate worship time. Jesus went to church on the Sabbath day. And so I think we have an opportunity to help people get across the line. As they say in football terminology, you don't want to stop the game at the 10-yard line. And his book stops short of saying it is, the seventh day, not just a seventh day.
45:34 And we need to gather together for worship. And God has blessed a particular day, not any day, not any seventh day. So. I remember years ago listening to T.D. Jakes. And he says, I can worship God on Sunday and Monday. And, you know, he went through all the days of the week. But the problem is there's a reason why one of the Ten Commandments starts with remember. Yeah. And the other thing I appreciate that he says that a lot of evangelicals don't understand, he said, the Sabbath began to be a holy day at creation. It is the oldest cycle of time. You know, you can point to reasons for much of the civilizations of the world having a year with approximately 360, 365 days because they observe the solar cycle. And most of the countries that were even isolated, they had a month with about 30 days because of the lunar cycle.
46:29 And we got a day with 24 hours because of the rotation. And on the axis. But the whole world keeps a seven day week. And the only place you can trace it to is creation. True. And so he makes some great arguments there. I've run into Christians before that say, well, Sabbath was just for the Jews. It didn't start till Mount Sinai. Not true. And that is not true, friends. Mount Sinai is Exodus 20. The Sabbath begins in Exodus. Exodus 16. It doesn't begin. But the Sabbath, you can find that the children of Israel are getting their manna. And God calls it his commandment. In Exodus 16, before they ever got to Mount Sinai, they knew about it. But when they were slaves, they couldn't keep it. That's another thing he says in his book is the Sabbath is for free people, not for slaves. Somebody's bringing up a point here and says, do you feel that the Seventh-day Adventist Church will have an impact on youth similar to Kirk?
47:21 If not, how can we help our youth to reach them? And what are we doing wrong? We need some bold young people. That's what I was. I'm not anymore. But we. We need. I mean, you know, I was 17 when I accepted the message and I just couldn't keep quiet. We need more bold young people to get out and reach young people and tell them, stand up for the truth. And don't worry about the criticism and don't try and be popular. Stand up for the truth. Do it diplomatically. But God wants people to speak the truth. That's true. Do you think Charlie's support of biblical Sabbath will cause the majority of Sunday keepers to change their mind or only fuel it for Sunday worship? Good question. I think I think the majority of those who read the book because he says Saturday or Sunday, they're going to feel comfortable just keeping Sunday more carefully. They're not going to start saying, oh, I've got to switch days. Some are going to perk up and start reading their Bibles and go.
48:18 It really says the seventh day we go to church Sunday because it's the first day of the resurrection. There's not a single commandment in the Bible about keeping Sunday holy. The first day holy. There's no commandment. They say, well, they gathered on the first day for a collection. That's not accurate. It says gathered on the first day that there be no collection when I come. And then it tells us that Eutychus fell out the window. Acts 20, verse seven. There is a meeting on the first day of the week. It's because they had gathered for the Sabbath. The meeting went past sundown. That takes it into the first day of the week. And Eutychus fell out the window and he's resurrected. That's why the story is there. It had nothing to do with the new commandment. So there's no commandment in the Bible to keep the first day holy. And I hope there's some people that will be watching this program. They'll study their Bibles more carefully.
49:07 Charlie Kirk did his own study because some people shook him up. And I trust there'll be some that will come across the line. But it's sad that we have to go through popular people, media that promotes certain individuals to blow them up and bring them to the forefront in order to propel us to actually go into the Bible and look for truth rather than us daily searching for truth. It's sad we need prodding. But the fact is that God uses people to reach people. So if the Lord, and I trust he will, is going to use this to stimulate the national Christian conversation about what the Bible really teaches about the Sabbath, that's good. The pendulum can swing both ways. So that can be good in that it brings it to the forefront. The Lord says that we're going to be brought before kings and rulers to take a stand for our faith. Are you in? Nate, did we get any questions on the subject of Kirk Cameron? I know you're probably looking at a big list of people still on the first half of the segment of our program.
50:08 Well, somebody asked here, do you think that God allowed this book to be released the same week as Kirk Cameron's statement to bring these topics to the forefront for popular discussion? Yes. Yeah, I think that it's providential. And that's why we, it's only a couple of days ago we said, you know, we need to turn on the cameras and come in on Friday night. We know we have one of the best audiences Friday night and talk about these subjects. Apologize to our friends on the East Coast. It starts at 10 o'clock your time. They'll watch it tomorrow. You'll see it tomorrow. It'll be up. It'll remain up on our website. This one's kind of interesting. It says, is not, is it not peculiar that all of this happened immediately after the eighth king, Pope Francis, has gone into perdition as Revelation 17, 11 foretold? Well, I don't know if I would make that connection. I do think it's interesting how things are lining up where, you know, some, I didn't know whether to mention it or not because I'm trying not to, I don't want this to be political, but I was kind of surprised that the White House released a statement that's a little disconnected.
51:11 This is something. On the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. Oh, no, that's not what I was thinking. And today I recognize every American celebrating December 8th as a holy day, honoring the humility and love of Mary. And I thought, why are we doing that? So it just, to me, having a Catholic Pope, rather having an American Pope, and popes are always Catholic, having an American Pope and an American president that is sending out press statements about Mary and the Immaculate Conception, which Protestants don't believe. I don't know, maybe the president himself may not have even known that. It may have been people in his office that are constantly sending out these warm and fuzzy announcements. But things are happening, definitely. The discussion of Christianity, and there's a debate right now, the whole immigration issue. People are, they're talking more about Islam and Christianity in the country. And you're hearing more and more statements of people saying, well, you know, America was founded as a Christian nation. But the government must endorse the last six commandments, protection of property, honesty, so forth.
52:28 So I see. I see people going, taking sides on both sides of that issue that make me believe that I've heard people say there's going to be a civil war in America because the country is so polarized. Something else. Just in the last week, maybe it's been a couple of weeks, I heard both the Pope and the president say there are concerns about World War III. I go to sleep at night. It's not going to keep me awake because God's on the throne. But people are afraid. And so I think that some people may turn to God out of fear. And all of this is going to come together. Well, all this recent government stuff has affected me personally because I was supposed to go on Monday for naturalization, my test. Yeah. But that's been canceled. You're a Canadian. Yeah. But that's been canceled now because of some Afghan person killing two National Guards. Yeah. And so they're scrutinizing everybody now. So everybody pray that I can get in here. That would be my main concern.
53:29 I guess we've got a few more minutes, but just what does all this mean for us today? Well, I think, first of all, there's a witnessing opportunity here. Yeah. I think that if you're a Bible Christian and you understand the truth about the Bible Sabbath, then embrace this opportunity to bring up that discussion with your friends. And like I said, take the ball all the way over the line. Show them the whole truth. Direct them to our websites like SabbathTruth.com. We just told you about. You saw the study. The free offer. Order some of these magazines. Give them to your neighbors. This is the time to do that. Because, yeah, tell them one more time. How do they get that magazine? This is Remembering the Sabbath, Finding the Missing Piece. And you can get this if you type in Sabbath 1225 to the number 40544. Or at the bottom of your screen or somewhere on the screen is a QR code. Take a picture of that.
54:23 If you don't know what we're doing, we're doing a live stream on Amazing Facts. Right now, watching what Doug says about Charlie Kirk and Kirk Cameron coming out with the things that we believe on this channel and Sabbath Adventist Church. Very interesting. We're going to do a whole live stream on that coming up pretty soon. But this is just a talk. This is, I think, a tremendous opportunity to talk about, you know, Paul, he was in Athens and he saw all the statues and he spotted they had a statue to the unknown God. And he thought, ah, I'm not going to talk. I'm not going to talk about their statues, but I'm going to use that as an opportunity to talk to the Athenians about who is the God they don't know. So he exploited that pedestal that they had there to the unknown God as an opportunity, something they made to talk to them about the true God.
55:15 I see right now we have Bible Christians. You've got two fantastic opportunities to talk to people about the truth regarding the Bible Sabbath and the blessings. Charlie Kirk covers a lot of those in his book. But that it is the seventh day. We should be gathering together to worship. God blessed a particular day. He made a particular day holy. We don't pick what day we want to make holy. God did that. So it does matter that it's the seventh day. And also, Kirk Cameron, we need to pray for him and hold his hands up. He's discovering the truth about hell. And so many people have been turned off from God. But Darwin, Karl Marx, Robert Ingersoll, all turned away from God because of this false teaching. About everlasting torment. They said, how can we love a sadist like that? And you wonder how different the world would be if people knew the Bible truth on that.
56:06 So, boy, I pray that I could have an opportunity to talk to some of these people. Any other questions here? Something just very basic. How did Kirk Cameron come to the truth about hell? I don't know. Like I said, I'd love to talk to him. I'm sure he studied. Yeah, I think he studied. He seemed to indicate in his YouTube program. That he'd always struggled with the idea that this loving God and the Jesus that he knows in the Bible would find justice in people being eternally tormented for the sins of comparatively a minuscule. Your lifetime is minuscule compared to eternity. And he said he just couldn't understand any form of justice. And if people are created in every human sins, it's like we've got this, you know, because of Adam's fall, we have this propensity to sin to punish everybody.
56:56 Forever and ever and ever for doing what you are kind of inclined to do when you're born. He said he just always struggled with that. And so someone, I think, presented some information to him. And he saw the pieces came together. And I don't know. I'd love to talk to him and find out how he came to that awareness. I hope he stands firm because he's taking a lot of heat right now. He does. Well, with everything, I know that you can answer this. How do you prove Saturday is the seventh day to a nonbeliever? Well, you look at the dictionary. Saturday, seventh day of the week. Sunday, first Sunday. And you can look at the encyclopedia. There has been no change in the continuity of the weekly cycle. Even the U.S. Naval Observatory or the observatory in Greenwich, England, that controls time. They will defend that there's been no change in the weekly cycle since long before the Christian era. And the Jews, you've got a whole nation.
57:47 Well, they know what day their Sabbath is. They've not changed or swapped along the way. The Muslims know what day Friday is. Christians keep Sunday because it's the first day. They tell you. They tell you that. So people have no problem wondering what the days are until they learn the Sabbath. Even in many cultures, what's the name for Saturday? Sabado in Spanish. Subota in Russian. It's all Sabbath day. Norwegian is Lord's Day. Is it really? Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah, there's 140 languages in the world. The word for the seventh day of the week is Sabbath. Because it goes back to the Tower of Babel. Since we're talking about Charlie Kirk's book, somebody's just asking, we can close with this. Would you recommend that they read Charlie Kirk's book? Yeah, I would. I think that he's got some good arguments and principles for Sabbath keeping that, yeah, we'll be blessed by.
58:42 So, friends, I'm looking at the clock. We promised that the crew, we would not keep them late. We want to thank everyone for coming in on short notice so that we can make this available to you. Please pray for these issues. Pray for amazing facts. Make sure and order that magazine on the Sabbath Truth. We're sending out a free copy. I guess if you want multiple copies, you'll have to call during weekdays so you can share them with your neighbors. And pray that the truth gets out because the Bible tells us Jesus is the truth that sets you free. And there we go. And so I think it's interesting. He said that because the amazing fact works for 10 hours, 10-hour days. So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And Friday they don't work. And obviously Saturday, Sunday they don't either. And so having the whole camera crew come in on a Friday night at 6 p.m. is kind of like, ugh.
59:34 But, you know, he does this every once in a while and that's part of the gig. I did that. And I remember being like, you know what, I appreciate this, but let's not do this every single day. I want to go home and relax. Okay, so now it's going into another program so I can probably get rid of that. But that was kind of fun. So again, what was below was the questions that were coming in from viewers. And what was beside was the chat at the time. And I thought it would be interesting to see what Pastor Doug said about this. He was my former boss and he's a prominent figure in the Seventh-day Adventist Church as an evangelist. And he's been that way for a long time, running a multi, well, running a very big business with over 100 employees ministry.
1:00:27 In California, Rockland, Roseville, California there, called the Granite Bay SDA Church. Anyway, I thought it would be interesting just to dig into that. And you guys should, again, go grab this off the website, strangenormal.org. And if you appreciate what we're doing here, we're doing a lot of work trying to get this message out, talking about spiritualism in the last days, join us on Patreon. Patreon.com slash strangenormal. Patreon.com slash strangenormal. That's strange. That's strange. That really helps out a reoccurring donation to push this message forward. We're coming to the end of the year and we are soliciting your prayers and your assistance as we continue to partner with you to finish this amazing work that's going on right now. And it's really, really going well. Focus, focus, focus on studying your Bible.
1:01:19 Study the Word. I'm going to bring you a few neat things. So watch in the next few days. We're going to be covering what does Charlie Kirk's book actually say? About this stuff. This is the book without the cover on it. This is actually the cover. And what does Kirk Cameron, what is he actually saying about this? We're going to do a watch together and kind of do some commentary on this. I think it would be interesting. And there's a few other videos that would be interesting coming out as well. You're going to want to submit some ideas because if you want more of these weekly programs coming out that I'm doing during the week, then I need more ideas that we can do. So if you want, email me, Bradley at StrangeNormal.org. B-R-A-D-L-E-Y at StrangeNormal.org. No space. And you can reach out at the website too. All right. That's it. My name is Bradley.
1:02:12 This has been Pure Strangers and Absolute Normalcy. Let's have a little bit of prayer before we go and we'll quit. Father God, thank you so much for giving us time to go over this interesting topic. We've got lots happening right now and I have a feeling your hands are in. And I pray that you continue to watch over what's happening and guide it according to your will. We know things are coming down the pipe that you approved of but aren't necessarily what you would hope would happen. But you're watching your people here on earth and there will be an extraction. There will be a time where we are taken back to live with you in heaven someday soon. I'm looking forward to that day. We love you. In the name of Jesus, we pray these things. Amen. All right, folks.
1:03:05 That has been it. I'm going to look in the chat real quick. Just seeing if there's anything in here that I need to think about. Any questions or anything before we go? Because I think it's already pretty late. It's 11 p.m. Eastern time. No, I think that's it. Okay. We'll conclude. I don't... I don't... Dale, I'm going to run credits or Patreon stuff tonight because I don't think we did the intro even. So this isn't really even the show. So maybe this is more of a Friday night fireside chat.
1:03:55 We used to do those. We'll do that sometime again. All right. Happy Sabbath. We're going to conclude. Have a great night.