0:00 one way they could be deceived is how uh you know the belief that they have of not all christians going to heaven jehovah's witnesses believe that yes there's no pre-tribulation rapture that god's people will live through the tribulation on earth but when jesus christ returns he's all the only people that are going to be with him in heaven from human humanity is 144 000. eric you've been on the show before and you have a unique background and i'm glad because i get to know more information from what i like to call you're an sme a subject matter expert on uh specific religion and so i want to see uh what you know about the jehovah's witnesses can you tell us a little bit about your background and uh and what uh just is a timeline of what happened and and where you are now and what you're doing and how how do you know this information uh sure so i i kind of the subject matter expert uh designation probably isn't as current uh i grew up as a jehovah's witness i was raised my father was a prominent elder in the local congregation he was raised as a jehovah's witness and so was my mother so they got married in the religion and uh i left when i was about 20 years old in 2007 so anybody who's familiar with the teachings of jehovah's witnesses they kind of know that they have this i this uh concept of what they call new light and so their teachings change over time and so my knowledge i basically left um in about 2007 and didn't really pay attention to what was going on in that organization for about 10 years i ended up joining the navy and i was in that for eight and a half years and so that i was just my mind and life was just sucked into that and so i kind of got a decades worth of changes all at once when i was around like 30 and i started digging into it's it's organization I grew up in. So I grew up in the 90s and early 2000s in that organization. But if we have anybody in the Discord or anybody watching this who's a more current, you've left more currently than 2007, your input would be appreciated. Because basically what I've done is gone back to the JW.org, which is the Jehovah's Witness official website, and just looked up different terms like UFO and extraterrestrial. Not much from this organization surprises me, but I was expecting to find a little more than I found. So I thought that was interesting and figured you'd want to talk about it. Yeah, absolutely. And so you're not a Jehovah's Witness anymore, but you are still familiar with some of their writings. And you found, better than I could find, you know exactly where to go to look up what the church believes on specific things. And so that's better than I can do. So I'm glad to have you.
3:15 Yeah, I was trying to find, I really wish I could have gotten some more art. The organization, the Watchtower organization used to make, what they would call, bound volumes, which is essentially all of their magazines for a given year. It's like the full magazine with the art and everything, and it's all in a bound volume. And I remember my father collected those. And those would be nice to have, because then I could scan it and show. I tried finding the art for UFOs, and it's very, there's not a lot on the internet. For those of you who are unfamiliar with Jehovah's Witnesses, and again, this is where the, there's limits to my knowledge, because I'm thinking about how we use them. And so I'm thinking about how we use them. And so I'm thinking about how we use them. And so I'm thinking about how we use them. And so I'm thinking about how we use them. And so I'm thinking about how we use them. And so I'm thinking about how we use them. And so we, how they used to do things, we, how they used to do things. There used to be the Watchtower and Awake magazine, I think, was it one Watchtower magazine every month and then two Awakes? Anyways, the Watchtower was the more serious one that had the study articles in it. So every Sunday there would be a public talk as the first, you know, you'd have your Sunday meeting and the public talk would be first. It was usually given by like a speaker from another congregation. And then the, the second part of that meeting would be a study and a discussion of whatever Watchtower article for that was for that week. The Awake was always the more, the one I was more interested in as a kid. That was like the fun one, because that had more interesting topics like, like UFOs or science stuff or current events. So that most of what I found on JW.org was from the Awake magazine, which in itself is interesting because that means it was, this is not a topic that seems to, have been discussed, as they say, from the, from the platform very much. So it's something you would read about in your own time, but it's not something that the Watchtower organization seems to have honed in on at any time. I'm going to stop rambling for right now and see if you have any questions about... Is it affiliated directly with the church or is it a publisher they use? It's interesting how they do it because, and I think this is, this is one of the reasons you get kind of a creepy vibe with this organization when you start digging into it. And you can see how they're playing legal games because the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses currently, I think it's like eight people who are in, it used to be Brooklyn, but now it's, where is it? It's not Wallkill. Is it Wallkill, New York?
5:39 Patterson maybe? Patterson was the old farm. Anyways, they're in upstate New York somewhere, is their like compound. And the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses for as long as I was growing up, they portrayed themselves as, we are the sole conduit for spiritual truth that God is using in the world today. But the president of the watch, the publishing company that actually produces the watch, I don't even know who the president is, but it's not a member of the governing body. And so when I see that given where I'm at now in life and my assumptions that I immediately make when looking at information or organizational relationships, I think that's probably, and this is just me speculating, but it's probably to shield the governing body from liability, because they can put out information as the governing body whom they know that all the Jehovah's Witness members are going to view it as, okay, this is what we should do. But then if something goes wrong, they can say, well, this guy's the president of the corporation that published it, so we don't have any responsibility. And that's essentially what they kind of did. If there's any Jehovah's Witnesses or former Jehovah's Witnesses watching this, I encourage you to watch all eight days of the Australian Royal Commission into child sexual abuse, because during one of the last days of that, Jeffrey Jackson, who is a current member of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses, he gets on stand. And it was amazing to watch, because for my whole life, it was like, no, the governing body, this is God's one channel. And then when he's in front of Caesar's Court, a court of a government, they ask him about that, and he says, it would be presumptuous for us to say that, that we are God's only channel.
7:22 And do you see yourselves as Jehovah God's spokespeople on Earth? That, I think, would seem to be quite presumptuous to say that we are the only spokesperson that God is using. The scriptures clearly show that someone can act in harmony with God's spirit in giving comfort and help in the congregations. So that for me was just like, watch it yourself i mean i'm not making this up um it's on youtube but that is kind of the relationship it's they they can they have ways of distancing themselves from the decisions that are made at the top but typically like for example there are there are there are letters that are only to be read by the body of elders in each local congregation but not to be publicly shared with the congregation right and so there are there's a secret book as elders handbook i think it's called the current iteration is called shepherd the flock of god you can find it online um that's only for elders eyes as a member of the congregation you're not supposed to be able to see that so the public information um is essentially going to come from the different books that are disseminated to the congregation and primarily the watchtower magazine itself or awake i think they've drastically scaled back the frequency with which they publish these magazines um i don't even know if they're doing it once a month for the watchtower and awake i don't like i said this is where my knowledge kind of stops because i'm thinking of the way things used to be um and these these are the two magazines by the way that if jehovah's witnesses came to your door they would be trying to share with you and get you to get you to take is the watchtower and awake magazine so so so they believe that they um and forgive me i don't have as much knowledge about jehovah's witnesses as i do the mormon uh religion because uh and only reason why i i parallel those is because those are the two that knock on doors adventists actually knock on doors quite a bit but not as much as mormons and i guess jehovah's witnesses do and i i have um i for for me i don't understand so they they they believe that there is only one way to heaven and it's through the jehovah's witness church is that is that correct this is where they make it i think deliberately vague because as growing up there's this kind of doctrine or accepted belief that's kind of pushed that only jehovah's witnesses are going to be saved essentially with very few non-witnesses that are going to be saved but it's not to my knowledge it's very rarely if ever explicitly stated because that's you know obviously a really harsh thing to say that's a really um bold proclamation sure and so but there was definitely pressure growing up you know they call members in the jehovah's witnesses publishers which is interesting the watchtower corporation is a publishing company right and the whole thing behind it and what they tell the the rank and files like okay this is you're publishing the kingdom right to the world which from a certain perspective makes sense they have but they have like what's called an unbaptized publisher so basically all children essentially or people who are joining the jehovah's witnesses um start out as unbaptized publishers so it's like you're part of the congregation you come to meetings you can go out and door-to-door what they call field service um but you're not a baptized member of the congregation and then once you're baptized then you're officially a publisher and there's like a distinction there there's definitely pressure to get baptized because that scene is like okay you know that's you need to be baptized before armageddon comes otherwise it might get dicey you know so that is does that answer your question yeah yeah i think that makes sense okay very good so i'm i'm interested let's jump right into it what what do they say about aliens let's call them what the government calls them non-human intelligence and uaps uh does the uh jehovah's witnesses say anything about that yeah they do but very little so this is what as i mentioned i was expecting to find more so if you go to jw.org i don't know if you can put it up on the screen yeah let me do that real quick so that first link if you just type in ufo i don't know if you can put it up on the screen yeah so that first link if you just type in ufo yeah not a lot there are 34 uh entries the most recent one and this was kind of also interesting
11:56 is that i didn't find anything past 1996 at least in the awake so when you see g there next to that's their abbreviation for awake so that they can what is the awake uh it's well it's the companion magazine to the watchtower uh magazine so this would be like a um i don't know how many pages you usually usually had maybe around 30 pages or something like that um but it's not the one that that the witnesses would have studied every sunday at their at their meetings oh okay so the most yeah i got i found one as as far back as 1970 and uh up to 96 in the awake and then i searched for extraterrestrials i got a uh a 94 awake and a 2000 watchtower um and i found the watchtower and it's very very minimally mentioned so to be honest and from what i remember it's it wasn't discussed a lot okay it was just kind of like in the you mean there'd be movies about it or you know in the popular culture but we didn't really pay much attention to it um the same thing with like ghosts or things like that it was it was almost as if it was written off you know it's like well because jehovah's witnesses have the um what i'm convicted is the biblical um the biblical um the biblical um the biblical um the biblical um the biblical um the biblical um the biblical um the biblical um the biblical um the biblical understanding of the state of the dead understanding of the state of the dead is that when you're dead you're dead god's word says is that when you're dead you're dead god's word says you're not conscious you know you don't work you're not conscious you know you don't work you don't believe that too huh wow yeah so they is for you don't believe that too huh wow yeah so they is for example a ghost it's just like well we know example a ghost it's just like well we know this isn't real we know that's not actually the dead this isn't real we know that's not actually the dead person because god's word says you know you're person because god's word says you know you're not conscious when you die ecclesiastes 9 5 and not conscious when you die ecclesiastes 9 5 and whatnot there's that's a whole that's a whole another discussion but just that's how i was raised and so it kind of shuts that that down as far as the ghost but as far as ufos it was always seen as just something like and as we can look at each uh some of these individual articles here um so this one from the 1970 this first tab is that what happened to flying saucers huh yeah so so typically what would happen in the awake is they would have you would have like on the cover would be the main it would be like the topic for what the magazine's going to be about essentially so this this is the introductory article so all this does is basically ask the question um if you scroll down to the end uh it lists some of the competing hypotheses or viewpoints and then you know that could all the strange sites reported be attributing attributed to such prosaic causes or might there be a few genuine flying saucers really beyond so then what happens is the subsequent articles will elaborate on that topic so this is kind of like after church reading material or is this an i'm still trying to understand how this fits into material wise yeah so this is something that your jehovah's witnesses are kind of ex were at least i don't know if they still are but expected to read a lot and mostly only material that came from the watchtower so there was a big discouragement around looking up anything having to do with jehovah's witnesses that wasn't from official channels because um yeah interestingly the governing body has changed the depth within the the organization of jehovah's witnesses i've learned that the governing body has changed the definition of apostasy to basically anyone who like openly disagrees with the governing body or the teachings of the governing body so you weren't supposed to read like material that questioned the watchtower um organization or the governing body or the teachings that was apostate material and they were afraid of sowing seeds of doubt you know in in your faith and that was how it was pitched of you shouldn't look any at anything you know air quotes worldly um for information which is and this is another point to bring out i think they ended i think 1970 the reason that we can't see anything earlier than 1970 on jw.org is because that's when they didn't upload anything before 1970 which is also interesting because if you start digging into the old like the old golden age magazine um when but from before when jehovah's witnesses were called jehovah's witnesses they were called bible students and they were kind of formed at the same time i think as the seventh day adventist and like the millerites and things a guy named charles charles tase russell well if you look at his writings and the books that he put out he was big uh into some occult things like pyramidology there's like occult symbols like all over these books trying to get meaning from the numbers and the periods and i think looking back on it now it's quite obvious that the reason that they try to limit people's uh access to information either from outside the watchtower or the earlier writings of the watchtower society is because if you start digging you're going to quickly realize that there's a lot of extra biblical stuff and
16:48 stuff that doesn't harmonize with god's word in the organization itself so maybe there was something written about it prior to 1970 but um as i don't have any physical books from you the witnesses uh all were were limited to the uh 1970 cutoff that's on jw.org that makes sense okay very good so this this 19 there's actually not a lot um in this 1970 article are you on the second link yeah yeah i was looking at what is what the saucers proved to be awake tell me a little bit about these articles what are they what are they purporting are they purporting their demons are they purporting their spirits of the dead i mean i guess not because the the witnesses don't believe in the spirits of the dead coming back which that's yeah but at the end of this they mentioned project blue book in this article really um but they yeah go to the conclusions if you scroll down to conclusions but they again it's it's largely brushed off uh yeah i saw blue book up there oh there's yeah yeah so after two years of scientific study of ufos by staff of what have they what conclusions can be drawn from this article i guess not because the witnesses don't believe in the spirits of the dead but but yeah well and so i mean i think the the there the the two major stories are drawn first the great majority of all the reports have their origin in the same kinds of things that project blue book named planets airplanes balloons meteorites mirages so basically the this the tin foil hat you know this is just a misunderstanding or you're blowing this out of proportion the next the end of the next paragraph uh the residue of the unexplained reports was shown to consist largely of unconfirmed rumors and vague accounts that were not worth running down huh causes were found for all but a handful of the cases examined this sounds like the same stuff that people are putting out in the news you know only a portion of these things are explainable yeah and then you know they always kind of pivot to the it's kind of like okay we discussed that now we're gonna go back into watchtower teachings which is how they end this article the next article was from a 1982 awake uh they mentioned the nasca lines what's that what is the nasca lines you know what the nasca lines are i don't i didn't even hear of that are you yeah you know you know you got to remember i'm not a ufo um guru i came into this as a christian who never touched ufos before and uh didn't care about uh conspiracy and all this stuff but when i realized this is actually a big deal i then said we gotta we gotta dig into this further i mean this is something we have to learn and so everybody that's watching this is learning with me as we're we're we're digging into this isn't i'm not providing information from the top of my head i'm i'm bringing in the the sources as i find them but well but yeah the nasca lines are those big uh is it peru um yes yeah peru the the designs that you can only see from the air so like the big bird that they think and it's been it's been on ancient it shows like ancient aliens where basically is this like meant to be seen by ufos are these kind of like crop circles essentially is this supposed to be conveying message to somebody who's outside the planet that can look down and see it um but in this article yeah it's it's really then they go over all kinds of stuff then don't they i'm amazed at how much the jehovah's witnesses actually um try to cover i think i mean this this is this is it's amazing to me that they're even diving into this and talking about it it's almost as if they're like we're going to use all the fringe to kind of guide them into listening to what we have to say and uh all the the information that we have um i mean anything and everything anything in the news from fringe to to the uh the latest scoop i don't know if they cover any of that i haven't actually read a lot of witness material but um i'm amazed i'm just saying i'm amazed they they're covering this stuff very interesting yeah well they have a very interesting i mean well so there's a you know 12 what is it 12 years between 1970 and 1982 there's not very much frequency with this particular topic and you'll notice that if you read jehovah's witness publications they don't cite their sources and they've been caught by people they'll just say like oh a theologian or a professor or a scientist but they don't cite anybody and they've actually been caught like misinterpreting a book and the author of the book um i have to i have to dig into that more but he like basically found out about it and came out and they had to retract it or apologize or something because he's like this is not what i said this is not the
21:30 context i set it in um but you know i've seen publications and this is something i have to give the you know adventist credit for is that if you look in like the quarterlies or whatever there will be a reference and it'll be like this this publication written by this person here's the page go look at it yourself so this is the importance of citing our sources especially god's word you know our beliefs should be coming from god's word alone and so if you can if we can essentially the bible and i believe the concordance goes with the bible because that shows you the original words that were translated from so if you can explain your your beliefs using the bible and a concordance and only that then great if you can't might be an issue there because and that's and especially if you're citing unnamed sources uh yeah it gets it's tricky you can hide anything you want that way essentially yeah and if people don't know what a quarterly is i i want to explain to someone here that doesn't know what that is quarterly i'm an adventist and uh what we found is that we put out a little booklet that helps everyone study for their what would be called sunday school there we call sabbath school and the the quarterly is a little lesson that you read with everybody and while you're home too so that um you're all on the same page you can all discuss at before church starts and it's a it's a very interesting read and it's put out every quarterly imagine that hence the name the quarterly i am not an adventist but in case anybody was just want to make that distinction i uh i'm not don't belong to a denomination but uh we yeah we have all kinds of this is a multi-denominational channel so we uh we're all we all believe that there are sheep in every fold and we all are discussing this right now this is involving everybody not just uh one specific denomination so we are we're encouraged to learn from many different sources about this strange phenomenon that's happening right now and ultimately i think we all agree that uh compare it against the bible so that's the that's the authority that's individual relationship with jesus christ god's word as the only authority and you know so as you're watching this or any of the other videos on the channel it's like don't just take our word for it it's it's an individual thing nobody can put in the work for you of building a relationship with god so i mean get into the word and be convinced in your you know persuaded in your own mind as scripture says exactly so yeah there's this nazca line there's not much to it um at towards the end of it they just speculate you know could it be this or could it be that basically we don't know so that's the the the gist of this article it's not there's not very much uh to it 1987 uh this is just i thought this was interesting because they kind of lump into uh up there at the top ufos in with parapsychology miracle cures transcendental meditation uh it lumped those in as superstitions um but then the article doesn't really so i i find it very interesting because they they go over a lot of the superstition they they don't seem to make a a super hard uh thus say if this is our doctrine on it but also they also don't believe that the state of the dead are going to float around and tell them things some sometimes so i i find it i find the jehovah's witnesses a fascinating uh denomination for this specific um uh deception because i and maybe this is a question for you um have you found any way they could be deceived by this you know i mean i see most denominations they believe that the dead you can communicate with them that's called necromancy and it's the bible strictly forbids that even if they come to you and so if they don't believe that that can happen they would even have to change their belief to be deceived or and and and also they're putting stuff out saying these are demonic it seems have you eric found anything in there that that could uh lead uh them astray maybe one way they could be deceived is how uh you know the belief that they have of not all christians going to heaven so jehovah's witnesses believe that yes there's no pre-tribulation rapture that god's people will live through the tribulation on earth but when jesus christ returns he's the only people that are going to be with him in heaven from human humanity is 144 000 that i believe it's revelation 14 1 that talks about that number and they take it literally and so that's where they get basically there's two folds they say you know
26:20 there's 144 000 and then there's this um full of other sheep that the vast majority yeah that the vast majority of humanity falls into and they are the ones who will spend a thousand years interestingly enough once the earth is destroyed um they're the ones who are going to clean it up and that's part of what they're going to do for a thousand years yeah and that's where they're going to live forever and those 144 000 will reign with christ um eternally in heaven so which is kind of contrary to what we read in first thessalonians 4 17 um then we which well let's let's go back actually so 16 for the lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of god and the dead in christ shall rise first then verse 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the lord interesting so it never says we that he comes and establishes his his kingdom on earth and he comes and establishes his kingdom on earth and he comes and establishes his kingdom on earth at this point and so yes do they believe that they're the great multitude will be here on earth and then the 144 will be up there in heaven somewhere yes so christ they believe christ um and well at least i was taught that christ started reigning in his kingdom invisibly in 1914 and there's a whole the watchtower organization has kind of a problem with uh math and dates because if you can just you think about there's a lot more faithful christians that that die and they die and they die and they die and they die and they die since the death of christ and 144 000 um and there's 144 000 living now evidently um and from what i understand they've they've gone through a revision of this there's the whole generation teaching and somebody brought out a whiteboard and a flow chart and i don't know i haven't again i'm not entirely sure what they believe now um but yes the majority of mankind will be on earth now interestingly they also don't believe that everybody will be resurrected at once at least that's not what i was taught it was more of like a gradual thing and i don't know if that's necessarily an official stance or more the speculation of witnesses like how they think it's going to go there's this idea that those who died closer to christ's return will be resurrected first and then people will be incrementally resurrected going forward um and then everybody will spend a thousand years on earth and at the end of that thousand years satan is released everybody's tested then those who are who side with satan at the end of that will be permanently destroyed and then those who are um who remain will have their names indelibly etched into the book of life and also interestingly they believe that if you're part of that group who who passes the thousand year test then you're good you're essentially like there's no possibility of you even sinning but anybody born after that um could potentially sin because they haven't been tested so um yeah does that huh interesting yeah i i i i i i think this is outlined in revelation 20. you mind if i go back uh back up there and read that this is this is interesting because i i wonder where they get all that from there's a bunch of extra stuff that i have never heard of before um so so this when christ comes we know that um you know satan is bound and all this other stuff i don't know what your host witnesses believe about satan being bound but revelation 20 says uh verse one this is what i'm reading says and i saw an angel come down from the greeks giving you sons i steeped my foot in the economists a little teaching that says that satan was born so on the sicher me crazy jury oh as i read the book heaven having a key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand and he laid hold on the dragon that old serpent which is the devil and satan and bound him a thousand years so that tells me he's bound here on earth and he the way we understand it is that you know he's got nothing i mean the humanity is destroyed by the brightness of his coming according to the bible and so he's got nothing to to do here this is his imprisonment for a thousand years while we believe that the the righteous have been taken up and the dead that uh the terrible dead are are down here the sinful that have decided they don't want to have anything to do with god um verse three says and cast him into the bottomless pit and shut him up and set a seal upon him that he should be deceived that he should deceive the nations no more tell the thousand years be fulfilled is what i was just talking about and after that he must be loosed a little season so when so he's loosed a little season because there's humanity back at the third coming of christ number four uh verse four says and i saw thrones and they sat upon them and the judgments uh were
31:12 given unto them and i saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of jesus and for the word of god and which had not worshipped the beast neither his image neither the mark neither his mark upon their foreheads or in their hands and they lived and reigned with christ a thousand years well where was he well they were taken up in the sky right and so somewhere in a thousand years we reign with christ so but the rest of the dead the rest you know the sinful dead they live not again until the thousand years were finished this is the first resurrection blessed and holy is that is that half part in the first resurrection on such a day when the first resurrection the second death which is forever destruction or forever annihilation um uh hell on earth i guess as someone calls it uh on such this is verse six the second death has no power like a fire yeah yeah yeah yeah but they shall be priests of god and of christ and they shall reign with him a thousand years well what does a priest do well he goes and tells It talks about how great Christ is and how great God is. And when the thousand years were expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison. And so now it's going back to that part where it talks about Satan being taken out for a small season. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, Magog, to gather them together for battle, the number of whom is the sand of the sea.
32:49 So there's a lot, a lot of people that didn't make it. You know, broad is the road to the destruction, narrow is the way. And well, I mean, even the Pharisees or someone asked Jesus, is there going to be only a small number in heaven? Well, this is kind of reiterating that. Verse 10, and the devil that, I don't want to monologue here. I thought it'd be good to read this though, this, just this section, this chapter and then the beginning of it, because this is really interesting. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night, for ever and ever. And I saw a great white horse, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away, and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God, and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the book of life.
33:46 And the dead were judged out of those that were written in the books according to their works. According to their works. You know, we're not saved by works, but we are judged by works. Not that works have any salvation in us. We talked a little bit about that in the last program, maybe a few weeks ago by now. Who knows when this is going to air. And verse 13 says, And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and the death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them. And they were judged, every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Okay, so that's the second death. That's the death that there's no more coming back from. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And this is chapter 21.
34:33 There was no chapters or verses in the original text. And so this goes straight into the next thing. And it says, And I saw a new heavens and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, John, saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And so this is the creation of the new earth that we will be on. And so nowhere does it say that we were on earth during the thousand years. And so I think it's interesting. I'd love to speak or try to dig into where they get the idea that the great multitude is still on earth. Because that, from what I understand, we could be completely deceived because the great serpent, the deceiver, Satan himself, will try to impersonate Christ, and he will be on earth here.
35:32 Yeah, so they don't believe that the, so the abyss, interestingly, the abyss was always kind of this vague other place. Like it wasn't obviously on earth because then Satan would be here among the people. But there's, yeah, they had to, they've done some interesting things with their doctrine to kind of make this division. Between those who are, who are anointed, they call them anointed, who are part of that 144,000 who are going to, basically they're kind of the, they were at least the leaders of the organization in the sense that they were looked on as like the people who were going to reign with Christ. They were called the faithful and discreet slave. There was, so apparently there's been some change because when I was growing up, there was the faithful and discreet slave. Class, which was the, all the remnant of the 144,000 that were left on earth alive.
36:25 And then of that, the governing body, you'd have the governing body were a small subset of that, but they still, you know, it was supposedly the whole faithful and discreet slave class had input on the teachings of Watchtower, the, you know, how Watchtower went about its business. But evidently from what I've heard, the governing body has changed that to mean the faithful and discreet slave is only the governing body. And, you know, the faithful and discreet slave who provides spiritual food at the proper time, that's only them now, evidently. So at the memorial service that the, it's basically the celebration of the last supper, the Lord's evening meal that they, Jehovah's Witnesses have every year, only the anointed are supposed to partake of the bread and wine. Everybody else just passes it along because those who are going to live on earth, they don't have the, you know, heavenly hope, the hope of going to heaven.
37:19 So that's, yeah, there's a lot of oddities. Obviously, people who, you know, who are watching this, who come from different other denominations will notice that. But yeah, that, as far as deception goes, if they believe, well, now they are waiting for a cry of peace and security, and they are waiting for a small group to be persecuted and turned on by the governments. They just believe it's going to be Jehovah's Witnesses. But so, but it's Satan. Okay, that's, that's what the key part I was missing. Okay, so they believe that there is going to be a group. I mean, I misbelieve that too. There is going to be a group at the end of time that is going to be persecuted. And I think Revelation doesn't specify who that group is, but there is going to be something that happens to the remnant, as it says, the remnant of God. And who that group is, is. Now, I mean, I, this is just my personal view.
38:13 I think it's, I'm not, I don't know, there's a good argument to be made for it being Sunday worship versus the seventh day that God originated. And there's a whole, you know, that's a whole other discussion about, but so Jehovah's Witnesses do worship on Sunday. And it's interesting. I never thought about it growing up. It was just Sunday. But as far as the UFO deception, yeah, if Satan comes down and does anything on this earth, especially if there's a large amount of destruction beforehand, maybe that's kind of an avenue that he could use to deceive Jehovah's Witnesses. But again, you know, there's, there are witnesses, I'm sure, who just, they're, they call them pimos, physically and mentally out. So they're just going along to get along, whether they, maybe they have family and that they don't want to get shunned by, or, you know, it's just because if you verbally disagree with the governing body, it won't be too long until you're kicked out.
39:04 So I'm sure there's witnesses who don't believe everything the governing body says, just like there's Catholics who don't believe that the Pope is infallible and things like that. But there's a great many who, if it comes from the governing body, they will accept that as, you know, okay, this is what we should believe. This is what we should do. So if, you know, whatever part the UFOs have to play in the Great Deception, if the governing body changes their doctrine to kind of fit in line with that, there are people, unfortunately, who will go along with it. So. Pimos. I had never heard that before. Um, um, that's interesting because I, I, I, I know that Adventists, we call them bad-ventists. And, and Mormons, for some reason, they call them Jack Mormons. I don't know why Jack, but I have to ask someone that.
39:51 Why, why Jack? I think we, I know a Mormon in the Discord. Maybe I'll ask him that next. But, um, yeah, I mean, it's just humanity. You know, I mean, humanity is, uh, the way you grew up and the way you interpret things comes into your head. Pimos. Physically and mentally out. I actually like that. Um, I'm going to write that down. Anyway, very good. Very interesting. I, I'd like to study that a little bit more and understand, uh, their, I guess the big word is eschatology and how they understand the last days. I just actually, it came from a Bible discussion group before we, we hopped on here. The sixth paragraph, uh, and talks about the Trinity, starting out with the Trinity. Oh yeah. On the contrary, the Trinity teaching originated in ancient pagan religions. Oh, they don't believe in the Trinity.
40:40 Fascinating. Oh, so this is, oh, they believe that Christ was a created being. He is not God. I have heard that. And the, the way that they do that. So for example, if you look at, well, we, I guess we can look it up there. You should be able to get to their Bible on here. Um, yeah, if you go to the Bible, let me see, where's that tab at the top. Okay. Got it. And they, they've, uh, have they changed the Bible? I've heard that. Yes. Okay. Yes, they have. And you will, well, like maybe a King James version. Theirs is called the New World Translation. Okay. Which, growing up, I grew up with a lot of what they call old-timers in the religion who were around almost towards the very start.
41:27 There was a convention called Millions Now Living Will Never Die. I grew up in the congregation with people that were at that convention. And so I was raised, it's like, yes, we used to use the King James Bible until we more accurately translated the Bible ourselves. Well, what I didn't know is, and what I found out later, relatively recently, is, yes, the Bible students did, and early Jehovah's Witnesses did use the King James Bible, but evidently they were crossing out verses that did not fit with their theology. And I believe it if you, when we compare here what the New World Translation has. Are you pulling? Yeah, so two verses are interesting. First was John 1.1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was. And the Word was God. Okay. Now the New World Translation. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God.
42:26 A God with a little g. Yeah. Yeah. Now do Colossians 2.9. Oh, boy. Okay, now we're getting into the deception here. I think I know where this is going. Colossians 2.9. Wow. For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And it says. In the New World Translation. Because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily. What? I don't even understand what that means. Yeah. So those are just two examples. But you see how, and this is what Satan does, and this is why we need to be careful, is because Satan doesn't tell outright lies. He twists truth, and he mixes lies with truth. So there's these two verses, which depending on, we did, we were doing John. It's the, we read John. This evening where he's at the pool, you know, the angel agitated the water, and the people would be healed.
43:18 I think it's John 4. And that verse is cut out of certain verses. I looked at it myself. It'll go from verse, I think it's verse 4. And it goes from, in some, the version that somebody else had, they looked and it's like, it goes from 3 to 5. And there are instances like that in the New World Translation. And this is just an example. You tweak two little verses, and you can, and there's others that they've done. And you remove the divinity of Jesus Christ. That's a problem. The NIV kind of does that, too. They remove a bunch of verses. Yes, oh yes. So that's fascinating. Wow. So this is, you know, this is why I kind of, I'm ambivalent on how I feel when people say, you know, the best Bible is the one that you're going to read. Yeah, to an extent. But if you're reading, I mean, some of these, the dominations that are teaching clearly on scriptural, you know, doctrines, like for example, about lifestyle things like homosexuality or things like that, God's word is clear about like, hey, don't do this, or this is a clear doctrine.
44:23 Like Christ was, is part of the Godhead. You know, if you change God's word, I would say, you know, find a better translation. I mean, I settled on the King James. I thought it would be an issue with all the V's and the Vows. It's really not. But, or at the very least, you know, if you don't use King James, you're going to be like, do your research into the translators. There's a lot of people who walk through and the history of the different translations of the documents they translated from the concordance, like Strong's concordance. It only works with the King James, I think. But it's an amazing, having that tool available allows you to, so it's like, it's not, you're not just taking the word of the people that translated the King James because they tell you the Hebrew and the Greek words that they translated from. You can, you can see it yourself. Which interestingly, Jehovah's Witnesses have a concordance for their version of the Bible also. So they have their own. So, so I want to step back into this. Jesus is a created being thing just for a second, because I see, I see that as my knowledge grows about what you're telling me about Jehovah's Witnesses, that could be a major problem because Satan himself is a created being.
45:35 And I think he's going to try to intertwine a lot of different religion ideas and as, as time progresses. So that, I think that's a good thing to stick in the box as maybe they might not be deceived by the, the state of the dead thing. But, but to claim God is that Jesus Christ is created. That's fascinating. I, I, I'm not sure how that fits in yet. Maybe someone in the comments will figure that out. But, but that's, that's interesting because that's definitely not what I, I believe. Yeah. So yeah, nor I at this point, but what, what are, what are their stance on pre-trib or post-trib? So, you know, they believe they are waiting for the great tribulation. In fact, there's, there's this term that many ex Jehovah's Witnesses is it's like a persecution porn. It's like they are obsessed with being seemingly the only P because they believe that basically so the Babylon, the great, the word they believe is the world empire of false religion.
46:31 And if you follow the prophecy and revelation and the beast turns on the harlot. And so they believe that at a certain point government, and this again, prefacing this, this is as it stood in like 2000, seven, this is what I was raised with. If they've changed this, then correct me in the comments. But I was raised that eventually the governments will turn on false religion, all of false religion. And then the only religion that will be left is Jehovah's Witnesses. And then they will turn on Jehovah's Witnesses. And then when that happens, God will intervene and Armageddon will come and destroy everybody essentially. Who's not a Jehovah's Witness. Wait. So they, they will turn on everyone, except Jehovah's Witnesses. And then they'll turn on Jehovah's Witnesses. Yeah. Huh? And then there will be a period that will be like a great, they call it the great tribulation, which I think is going to be pretty accurate. You know, Christ said it's, it's going to be like, unlike anything the world has ever seen before or since.
47:24 So things are really, they believe that we're leaving in the last days as they call it, or end times as other people would. Um, and that's building towards this great tribulation where it's just going to be horrific. Uh, and then at a certain point, which is biblically sound, you know, it's going to be bad. Yeah. There is definitely going to be a thing coming. I think, I don't know of any domination that doesn't believe there is something coming because the revelation talks about major, major catastrophes, but some are the dominations are like, Oh, don't touch that. It's a closed book. You don't want to, you want to dig into that too much. But what I, I find fascinating is, um, I had never heard that they, they believe that there is something coming so big, but they will not be touched until the last, the last religion is, is, is gone or, or maybe I'm misquoting you, but yeah, no, that's it. That's kind of the gist of it. I mean, they've made us since they started a thing as streaming, I don't know if it's streaming or videos, but like JW broadcasting those. So they started making a lot of videos and I've seen just clips of a lot of them. And it's like, you know, they depict Jehovah's witnesses as hiding in basements and the authorities, you know, coming to look for them and things like that.
48:33 There's just there. And growing up, it was kind of like that, you know, you'd see pictures, a watchtower artists, very distinctive. And so whenever I see it, it's like, Oh yeah, that's watch our art. And there's all kinds of images of just the basically God's people, God's true people surrounded by the armies of the world or people, you know, trying to do them harm. And then Christ coming in from the heavens and to the rescue, which is, which is going to happen. But they really focus on that. And so, yeah, they, they don't believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. So am I, am I, am I sorry? I didn't want to step on you. I'll go ahead and say what you're going to say. No, I was just going to say some of their more interesting ideas come about like what happens after that, but that might not be the question you were going to ask. So is that why? And you said that there's going to be a lot and they believe that there's going to be a government takeover of some kind where they come after the religions.
49:30 And I've heard growing up, and this might be untrue. So I'm going to ask you that there's, that's why there's no windows on the Jehovah's Witnesses church. Is that true? Yeah. There are always windows. There are every time I go by, there's like no windows on the sanctuary area. And it's like, uh, really? No, there were windows. I'm going to pull some up right now because I was, so they made, they used to make, uh, it depends on where there weren't many. Um, and they don't do that. I mean, they associate things like with stain that you won't see crosses. Um, it's not called the church. It's called the kingdom hall and there's no stained glass or anything because they associate that with Catholicism. Uh, and just, I, uh, iconography, I think. But they're, they're definitely windows. It used to be, I grew up in an, at a time when congregations could build their own kingdom halls and there were a variety of styles.
50:20 They all kind of followed a similar kind of a similar layout, but there was, you could, there was room for variety and apparently they've gone to a more commercial style building. Um, that's just really cookie cutter and there's different reasons, um, that they've done that. But I pull this over a little bit and, and so I, I, I could be completely wrong in this, but I was, I was just amazed that they don't put any windows here and, um, and this has windows. Uh, this one doesn't, it's just, it, it seemed odd to me. So I thought they were making kind of like a safe room or a fortress that has windows. That one has windows. Um, but there's many that I have seen that don't have windows and I thought maybe it was just, um, because of the congregation I grew up in, there were windows on two sides of the auditorium.
51:09 And it just really all depends. So I mean, and I was mentioning, I think it's partly also to keep distractions out. Like for example, the, the blinds on the windows were always closed during the, uh, as far as I recall during the service. Yeah. So that way you're not just like, you know, especially the kids and stuff, just skylarking out the window, stuff like that. So very good. Yeah. I see you have other, other clips, uh, uh, material up here. Extraterrestrials. Yeah. So there's a 19, uh, let's say 1990 awake. This seems to be the most substantial as far as number of different articles. Well, actually one of these is from April and one of these is from November. So two in the same year. So basically like this first article from 19 is April was, uh, it's basically just an overview of different perspectives.
52:05 It talks about SETI, um, and some of the different, uh, you know, search for extra, uh, terrestrial intelligence and, and it just basically is ambiguous as far as its conclusions on that. And then the other one from, from November, there are three articles that we have from that. So it kind of discusses, you know, the first, that first article page two through four is the, uh, introduction, you know, just discussing the different, I remember, you know, I wish I could have gotten a picture of it, but, uh, you know, there's one, I remember one awake cover and maybe if somebody has it, that would be amazing. I want to say it was the color purple was involved and it was either a crenellated or a very long UFO in space. I don't know which year that was, but it would have been in the nineties. I think, um, I, I vividly remember that and that was about, it's about it.
53:03 I mean, you have a picture, don't you? Of the, that awake, uh, you got that up. Yeah. So I don't know. You can't even, I think it's 1990 something, but yeah, it's something like that. And this was kind of the time of like Roswell lights. I forget what your Roswell lights were. So do they, are they speculating what they are in this article? Are they trying to tell you that they are demons or do you know? No, it just tells you. So while here's an interesting, at the end of this, uh, the 1990 awake November 8th page, fourth years. And so at the end of this, um, it just makes a statement. Some have thought that the Aztec God gets a coddle arrived in a snake like spaceship. Now on this next tab, it asks, is there an occult influence? So there they start asking the question while here. So if you, if you scroll down to the third paragraph under this, this is says the Bible also speaks of extraterrestrial spirit creatures, such as obedient angels and disobedient rebellious angels who became demons down through Bible history.
54:06 God on many occasions use faithful angels to communicate. With men, Satan is still uses his demon followers to mislead mankind with all kinds of philosophies, fast messages, communications that cults that distract from the message is that God's kingdom, his heavenly government will soon rule over a restored earth. Just taking this paragraph as it is. Yeah. 100% agree with that. This is the thing. There is some truth in what, um, organization, certain and all organizations, you know, teach. It's just, we have to be look into it and, and in light of God's word, what does God's word really say? But this is where they kind of just pivot away from that, right? They, they acknowledge that, okay, yes, Satan and demons exist. They could be considered like extraterrestrial, but then it's like, okay, let's focus on the, the teachings of Jehovah's witnesses about Armageddon and the last days and things, right?
55:01 That's how this article seems to end. Next one is from 1990 awake, 1996. Again, it just kind of, it mostly focuses on, okay, alien plan. Yeah, this is, it lists us like, okay, these are some things people believe, but then it's like, okay, there's God's communication with mankind. And yeah, it's, it's just very tangentially mentioned. Um, and they, because of which to the credit, I mean, that's what we should be focusing on. We should be focusing on our relationship with God and Jesus Christ and, and the real thing, his word, what does his word say? This is where, if you look for, UFO on jw.org ends, it seems at 96, which is, it's almost 30 years ago. Yeah. Since they mentioned it at least. Yeah. And, and like I said, remember, they're not, this is not something that's being discussed from the platform at their Sunday meetings or whenever they hold their meetings.
55:57 Now we used to have like a Sunday and a Thursday and a Tuesday night meeting. Um, this is not what's being discussed. So unless you are, you know, really into, uh, into being a Jehovah's witness, if all you're doing is going to the meetings or, or you're new to Jehovah's witnesses and you're going into the Sunday meeting, you're not going to be exposed to any of this unless you're reading it on your own. So that is significant because I believe that this is an issue, um, that should be discussed maybe not every week or not all the time in front of the whole congregation. But the part of the reason we're doing this channel is like, this needs to be discussed to as wide a group of people as possible. In the context of this is a biblical issue. This is a serious biblical issue. This is not just a, you know, some kind of sci-fi, uh, uh, pop culture thing that, you know, Satan's world is doing and we can just ignore it. Yeah. That's, that's dangerous. And so that's exactly what they're trying to, they're pushing out the idea.
56:58 I've heard so many people say when they get interviewed, Oh, you know, I think it'd be great if the government just comes out and says, we've been communicating, I love aliens or where they get that idea. From where do you get the idea that you love these things? You don't know a thing about them. You don't even know what the other side of it, all you see is what's in, in Hollywood and what could be and what stories are fiction or have come out about them. When in actuality, it's much more terrifying than that because these things, once they're allowed to do what they want to do, then they're not aliens, not technically there, but they're, they're, they're not what you think. They're not cuddly, wuddly ET from, uh, Steven Spielberg. So, yeah, that was mostly, I mean, the rest of the links, I, I just searched for extra terrestrial and I didn't find much, uh, again. So, you know, some, some talking about SETI, the, uh, the radio telescope down that was in Puerto Rico, it's destroyed now.
57:56 Um, but, uh, it just, yeah, they just don't really focus on it at all. Huh. And you know, yeah. Growing up, I went to, you know, I like sci-fi still, you know, kind of like sci-fi. I mean, I'm aware of the occult and the, you know, how, and I can see it now, you know, the, the messages that are in everywhere. It's like, once you see it, you can't unsee it. Um, and that's another, you know, that's another wild thing about Jehovah's witnesses is growing up. I grew up, it's, it's, it's like this interesting turn that I've done this because I grew up. It's like, okay, everything outside of Jehovah's witnesses is, you know, the world is controlled by Satan. The governments are controlled by Satan, the media and all this. And so, and then I left and he did my own thing for, you know, over a decade. And now I'm coming back to, oh yeah, it really is controlled by Satan. But where I think the mistake is that it lies with Jehovah's witnesses. They don't specify, they don't give specific examples because once you start doing that, if you go back into the history of the watchtower organization, or even some of the things that they still teach and start looking for things that are either occult or not in harmony with God's word, you will quickly come to the conclusion.
59:01 That is something is off. And so they don't, again, they don't want people doing that. And I think that's a huge disservice. I don't think there's any topic that we go through in life that we cannot address from God's word. And I'm not talking about like things like engineering or calculus or things like that, but like how to live our life and things that are going on in the world. We can look at what the Bible has to say for some type of guidance on at least how to view it or how not to view it. Right. And we're supposed to test the spirits. Just, we're supposed to compare things with God. So, we're supposed to look at what God's word is. And so when it comes to this, especially when I, when I see something that is, and we've discussed on different shows before that this is now being talked about in the US Congress openly, it's not tinfoil hat stuff. It's not in the tabloid section. I looked yesterday and today at the tabloid section, UFO stuff isn't in there. It used to be in the nineties, you're, you know, a kooky conspiracist and that's not where it is anymore. So if we accept that this is Satan's world, that every message that we're getting, through you know, air quotes, official channels or narratives is ultimately Satan moving us toward, you know, moving pieces in the great deception, then they're talking about this.
1:00:14 We should be talking about it from a biblical perspective. And so. Absolutely. If you're, if you're new to the channel, that's what, what this channel is about. Right. And we encourage you to join the discord. What, what was the tagline now for the, for the place of a sit down, cost of a sit down restaurant once a month you can, I mean, we talk about all kinds of not just UFO stuff, all kinds of stuff because things are happening so rapidly. Like I'm putting, I used to think that I put out a lot and then some other people joined the discord and it's like, I'm getting information that I haven't even, it's just like, and all of it is related to Bible prophecy because we are moving into the time that Jesus Christ talked about that. And he told us to watch out and do not be deceived. How many times did he say it? Yeah. Do not be deceived. Three times. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Do not be deceived. And we got everything from natural disasters to this alien phenomenon happening right now. And AI is huge. We talk about that war seven wars and rumors of wars, just zillions of channels.
1:01:20 I mean, just so many channels that contain so much information. So it's very important that we talk about this and become a part of it and discuss, because we all got different opinions. We all got different ideas and we can all bring something to the table because they're sheep in every fold. And I think it's important that we all have a discussion because right now everything's compartmentalized. We're tying ourselves over in these groups over here. These groups over here are these Facebook groups or these niche groups, and then we're getting mad at each other. I mean, you see politics all the time. People are mad at each other. Well, they haven't even looked over and gone to the fence beside them and talk to their neighbors who have a different opinion. If we would just do that, then we would understand each other. But I think we need to, we need to, we need to address this topic specifically and look and see what what's happening in the Bible. So that's, that's exactly right. That's, I'm just confirming what you're already saying, Eric, I've taken over.
1:02:11 No, that's fine. I want, well, yeah, I mean, I mean, I'll be interested to see what happens with, as things unfold as hearing things from the Jehovah's Witness organization as to how the, you know, how they're teaching changes. And again, if there's anybody watching this who you either are or have recently left more recently than I have, uh, the organization would be glad to hear your input as to what they're teaching now. Um, I know you, you mentioned somebody that, you know, Brad, um, you found out he was a formerly Jehovah's Witness and asked about the Bible, but the most, the Bible that I remember was black. Um, there was a hardcover version, um, and it's a corner. I remember I didn't like that one there. And there was a also a soft cover version. I think they moved on to silver now. Um, they call it the silver sword, which is kind of, you know, little pun there or whatever, but, um, I, at a certain point I got my own Bible. That was like a reference Bible that I had bound myself. So it was blue, but that was not something that was traditionally offered.
1:03:09 You know, I had to go do that myself, but to answer that gentleman's question, he's watching this. Yeah. Which color was the Bible that they use? The oldest Bible that you know? Yeah. I, he had mentioned that there are different colors at different times. So very good. Very good. Well, this is all very interesting, Eric. I think as time moves on, I think we'll kind of understand where, where all this is going, because I, I I'm fully convinced that, that this deception is going to hit everyone, all in all religions, very hard. And if nothing else, um, it's going to push people in different directions and, uh, solidify some beliefs in some things. So I, I, uh, I hope to, uh, continue to talk about this as we, as we move on. Certainly. I'm sure we will.