0:08 There is a war we can't see for your life, my life, everyone we know and love all day long, all the time. I remember earlier, we'd had a conversation, and you said you'd saw a blue orb, and somebody told you it was the Holy Spirit. Yes, and it was just sparkling about this big, about this far from my face, and the whole room slowed down like slow motion, where you could literally see the lint float around the room, and everything went slow, and the sound went fuzzy. And it was just an orb in front of me, and it totally took me in, and I couldn't do anything but look at it, just gazed at it. A lot of the occultists are seeing these round balls of fire, not only far away, but also up close. The military is seeing these things. They just shot at one of these Tic Tacs with a Hellfire missile. And my boys are outside, and she gives them both a little brace, and I go and I take it, and it's just... Plain beads, it's green and black and white, but then it has three letters, and it says, DIE.
1:20 I appreciate you guys both being here. This is fantastic, because I think this is such an important issue that we should talk about. You just had a fascinating testimony about your experience with the deliverance ministry within your own church, and I want to bring Wendy in with her knowledge about this as well, because as we try to dig into this further, I think there's wisdom in many people. How is it that this is so confusing? And I just kind of want to preamble with this, because what's confusing to me is that it looks like Christ sent his disciples out to push out us to command demons and things like this to leave people, according to what the Scripture says. I want to bring up some Scripture. Okay. Each of the disciples, he saw a great multitude around them, and the scribes disputing with them. Immediately when they saw him, all the people were greatly amazed, and running to him, greeted him.
2:26 And he said to the scribes and asked the scribes, What are you discussing with them? Then one of the crowds answered and said, Teacher, I brought you my son who has a mute spirit. And when it seized him, it threw... It throws him into the... It throws him down, and he foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid. So I spoke with your disciples, and they... That they should cast it out, but they could not. And he answered and said, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him to me. And they brought him to him, and when he saw him, Immediately... I like how Mark always says immediately. Immediately the spirit convulsed him, and he fell to the ground and wallowed, foaming at the mouth.
3:24 He answered his father, How long has this been happening to him? Christ said. And he said, From childhood. And often he has thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if you can do anything... Now he said, if you can do anything... If you can do anything... Have compassion on... Us. And help us. Jesus said to them, If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes. Immediately the father of this child cried out and said with tears, Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief. When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit and said, Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you. Come out of him.
4:13 And enter him no more. And the spirit cried out, convulsing him greatly, and came out of him. And he became as one dead. So many said, he is dead. But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up and arose. And when he had come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could we not cast it out? So Christ said to them, This kind can only come out by nothing but prayer and fasting. So I think it's interesting that Christ did tell his disciples that they can go cast these things out, but there are some that cannot be cast out. And are they just playing games with us in these deliverance ministries, or are there some deliverance ministries that are legit? That's my biggest question. I truly believe that everyone I have talked to on this channel, is not playing games.
5:13 They are truly committed to helping people. And I want to know the truth behind this, and what it takes to help people in the last days, whether it be praying to God and solely, you know, fasting and praying, or helping them by whatever it takes else I need to do to help them. And I believe the Bible has the answer. And by experiences like yours, like we had in the previous session, I think we can understand it better. What do you guys think? What I want to say, I did a study on this story, because I really wanted to understand the spirit of autism, because that's what I was told my son had. And I read that story multiple times. And what I learned in listening to some pastors explain, that it mattered who went with Jesus when they went to cast out spirits. There were times when he only took Peter and John. So he knew the facts.
6:09 He knew the faith of who he was working with. And I think that's why some can't go out without prayer and fasting, because prayer and fasting is what builds you up and edifies you to a point where God can work through you to help someone. And I think that could have been the difference in this question. I'm going to ask a hard question. How? How does that work? My wife always asks me that. She says, you're the guy who asks the word how too much. I want to know how it works. Well, I would say, you know, even Jesus says in here, you faithless generation. And who's he talking to? It sounds like the disciples, right? Because they tried and then they couldn't cast him out. But if you have faith, Jesus can move mountains. And so like even in his own town, he wasn't able to do all the miracles or the signs and wonders that he could do everywhere else because they lacked the faith. And so I agree when it says fasting and prayer is needed.
7:02 I don't think it's for those demons or that situation. I think it's to get your heart in the right place because the person, who's like, if I'm going to go and try to help somebody, but I'm not right with God, well, what's that going to do, you know? And so I know some deliverance ministries really focus on beforehand. I don't have a lot of experience with deliverance ministries. I will say that I vouch for David Ng because that's just me. I've followed him a long time and I have some personal experience from what I've learned with him that has helped me to just accept it. But what I really respect about him is he stresses before you go, you go into any situation, you have to get your heart right. You have to work on you. And he says, I remember one story that he shared. It was like when he first started out, he said that they would have like five people in with him. And then it was like nothing was accomplished. And he realized maybe not all these people here have their heart right with God.
8:00 And so this is making it a lot harder. And I think that's what we see in this story. Whoever was trying, because it doesn't even tell us which of the disciples, but somebody was trying to do this and didn't work. And he tells, it sounds like Jesus rebuked and said, where's your faith? Like there was something in their own hearts that needed worked on before they could actually help. Because Jesus shows up and he just does it. Like clearly it could be done. It was that person, in my opinion, that was the stumbling block in that situation. Agreed. It's like it caused a breach in what God could do. And it doesn't matter who goes with you to do something. God can work. But if there's something there, maybe he can't do it the way he'd like to do it. Because you have to give in for him to be able to be successful through you. And if someone's there not giving in, he can only do so much.
8:51 And it's not that he's limited, but it's for his glory. And he's using us to show that. So if you get a great outcome and you weren't really all in, you will start feeling like it had more to do with you than with God. So when we surrender, he can do all that he really wants to do. That story sounded to me that even the father realized that him being there could have caused a weakness. Because he said, help down my unbelief. So even a father being there caused a weakness as well as maybe a couple of the disciples. And so that had to happen for Jesus to be able to do everything. He had to say what he had to say. And that may have caused a change of heart in that scene. Yeah, we'll take that point. I remember the Bible. There's a Bible verse. I don't remember exactly where it is. I can probably pull it up in post. But it says, The prayers of the righteous availeth. Not much? Yes. And so I wonder if that applies here.
9:43 You know, if you have your heart right with God, if you have your, and you're thinking that your mindset is to help God, not to make money off of the gospel like we saw in that magician. What was his name? Simon? I think it, I think, I think your heart has to be in the right position and you also have to, you know, hesitate to say, be righteous or at least righteousness as we know it is to be, have that connection with God. Right standing. Right standing. Yeah. I hear it like the hesitancy of saying you got to be righteous, but God does call us to be righteous. And you don't want to be self-righteous like, oh, I'm this big thing. Righteousness is seriously just right standing with God. And what does that mean? Other than you have no sin standing between you and God.
10:34 Confessed your sins. Confessed it. Yeah. It's not that you're perfect, but when you mess up, you go straight to God and you make it right. That's righteousness with God. And I mean, in this moment, there's nothing keeping you and God from him doing a miracle through you. Yeah. So I actually have like a, quite a few scriptures, because that's something that I was really studying was how is this done in the Bible? How is deliverance done in the Bible? Because the scripture that I was thinking of in Mark 16 is where Jesus, it's like his last words to the disciples. And he tells them straight up because some people are like, don't touch it, don't go near it, don't have anything to do with it. And I would say, and I would agree with you that some, some ministries are doing this wrong. And yes, you need the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you. But as a whole, Jesus says, these signs will follow those who believe in my name, they will cast out demons. So it's like, but it also says, speak in tongues. They'll take up serpents.
11:32 And if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them. If they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover. So I wanted to follow this with a caveat because we know that the gifts of the spirit are distributed, right? And so we're not all going to be healers. We're not all going to be casting out demons. We're not all going to do these things. But I do think that God gives these gifts to certain people. And here we're told that it has to be done. It should be done. It was a command by Jesus. So to say like, nobody should be casting out demons. I think that's dangerous. I agree with you. Here, these gifts of speaking in tongues. Remember, tongues means speaking other languages, understanding other languages. And that is how we have, we're able to have sign language. We're able to hear scripture and sermons in different languages, interpretation.
12:25 So that's what that gift is. And I don't think we need to have a deliverance ministry set apart from everything else. We should all be able to help others be delivered. And delivering is really just, praying and believing that God can deal with something that's happening in someone's life that is really keeping them from the full life God wants them to have. So why do we have to have this separate ministry set apart? We should all be able to help each other. It's another gift. So it's really confusing to me because I know that there's a chapter in Roger Moreau's book, one of the prayer books that he does. And I deeply respect. Roger Moreau, I think a lot of people do. He's had a lot of experience with this stuff. But he's very critical about deliverance ministries. And I want to put it out there that he's not a prophet.
13:22 He is someone who has a lot of wisdom in this. But how would we do it Christ way if we were to do it Christ way? That's another how question. But because if it is biblical to do this, and we don't want to just be, playing games with them for hours on end, how do we go about it? Such a good question. But so I want to bring up one scripture because this is what I was kind of doing was going through and like going, all the places where demons are delivered, like how was it done? And the hard answer is God doesn't give us a playbook. Like there's not a step by step by step in the Bible of what do you do when you're harassed or oppressed or possessed or whatever. And, and, and I think it just goes along the same lines as other topics. God doesn't want to just give it to us. He wants us to seek it out.
14:17 He wants us to, you know, treat his word like the pearl of great price. He's going to give those answers to people that are truly in heart, looking for the truth and calling out to him. No, he promises anybody that needs wisdom. If you ask, he will give to all without reproach. And so he's looking for people who are coming to him, wanting to know the truth. And I think those are the people that he really needs and guides, you know, into the right avenues. It certainly can be done wrong. Um, but I wanted to look at one thing because this is what I thought was really interesting. And Mark chapter nine, um, it's 38 through 40. It's really short, but it says here, 38, John answered him and said, teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in your name. And we forbade him because he doesn't follow us. And Jesus said, do not forbid him.
15:10 For no one who works a miracle in my name can soon afterward speak evil of me. For he who is not against us is on our side. That to me makes this like a lot more gray because like you've got some random person out there casting out demons. I don't know who it is. He's unnamed. And the disciples were like, wait, that looks wrong. We don't know this guy. He's using Jesus, his name. We got to stop him. And Jesus says, no, let him do it. He wasn't like, okay, wait, let me tell you the right way. Go explain to him how we're doing this. He was just like, let him be. So that to me, I mean, you compare that to the sons of Sceva, right? Who tried to cast out demons and they're beat up and naked and running away because the demons are like, well, too, they saw it as a money making.
16:00 Exactly. Scheme. So like God, I mean, Jesus, you know, and his authority, whoever it was that was casting out, he knew who they were talking about and he knew that person's heart. And he knew that they were genuine and trying to do a good thing for somebody else in the name of Jesus. He was like, no, let them. So it's interesting because there are no instructions in that case. There's no guidance whatsoever. That's recorded for this man to follow. And so I think the real issue is when you have your heart right with God, the Holy Spirit reveals these things to you. And so that's, again, another thing that I really respect about David Ng. Is that when I was just kind of learning his methods and everything I had, we, it was like the zoom call and there were tons of people on it, but there was an opportunity to ask questions. And I had some very specific questions that I'm like, okay, I want a concrete answer.
16:53 And I think it was like, if you have family members that, you know, could possibly be harassed or whatever, how do you get them to understand that this is a spiritual battle? And he was like, no, you can't don't even, don't even attempt to confront them because, because they're going to come up with a wall. Nobody wants to hear, you know, like there's darkness in you or whatever. And so he was saying, just don't even take that approach. Your job is to use the Holy Spirit to pray for the Holy Spirit and let the Holy Spirit do the work of convicting and their lives. And if you don't see their change of heart, keep praying. You just keep praying until it happens. And I think that's right in line with like Roger Moore. I was going to say that matches Roger Morneau. He said, you plead the Holy Spirit. You plead the Holy Spirit to deal with it. Yes. Give it to him.
17:42 And also pray each morning for him. He needed to, because he was an unbeliever. Pray each morning and read Matthew 27. And that was what he needed to do. And so that was his advice, but it's the same pattern. Read, pray, intercede for others and share the good things God has done for you. He's going to deal with it. But in deliverance ministry, it's so theatrical sometimes. It's a show of wielding this power of the Holy Spirit, like a sword chopping and slicing and burning with fire. This, these spirits and casting them off to the abyss. I mean, these are actual words of part of the prayers. And so when you do it like this, how can anyone remember Jesus? Yeah. Also, it takes all the power away from you because let's say it works.
18:35 And then a week later, you're like, I'm feeling harassed. Well, you have to run to that person. Yes. They become the intercessor for you instead of Jesus. That's very dangerous. And that's why it's a game. That's why Roger Morneau and I agree, calls it a demon game. I get to run back and forth and have you like a chicken with its head cut off, trying to figure out how I can get this one person to help me again. And you hope it's for free. Yeah. But I like what you read. I've never read it before, but what I got from it was if someone is out there doing it to their, using their heart, like you said, they really are doing it to the, to the best of their knowledge. God can work with that because it doesn't take much for someone to see something and it inspire them to go and be a part of what is good going on. So everyone wasn't following Jesus, but that doesn't mean no one else in the world was not worthy.
19:30 And so what Jesus saying, don't worry about them, let them be. I think that's another example for us. We see all kinds of things going on with deliverance and let them be. Because there are some genuine people involved and they are seeing something and someone is seeing that in them and it might lead the right way. It helped me. It helped me want to have a closer relationship with God and learn more Bible verses than I've ever learned before. Yeah. Amen. And there were people involved who probably weren't right in some way, but it was good that God let it happen because it got me here. Yeah. Yeah. Where would I be? So what do you think? So the difference primarily is the righteousness of the person and how they, they are connected with God in that this is really deep stuff, you know? And I'm, so I'm wondering if, if it was the sons of Sceba at that time that Christ was talking about when he was like, if, if, if that came upon, if he heard that story, would he have said, no, no, let the sons of Sceba be, but let them, let them go ahead.
20:31 Yeah. They'll, they'll figure out what they're supposed to do. Let's all see how this flows. You know, when he says he was not against us is on our side. Um, I think it all goes back to the matter of the heart because the reason why the enemy was allowed to trample them over, beat them and rip their clothes off and scare them away was because they didn't have the protection of the Holy Spirit. You know, they weren't right with God. Otherwise the demons aren't going to be able to do that. And so, yeah, I do think it is all a matter of the heart. And again, when people are genuine. Yeah. And sincere. God can work with that. Yes, absolutely. Cause he's working on them too. And that can grow your faith. Yeah. And even if it's somebody that's not well-versed, if they have a genuine heart, like that's powerful. God will use the simple of this world to cast out the powerful people, you know, and to bring wisdom to those who don't understand.
21:26 But it's true. We all have been exposed to books and sermons from other churches. And I know that we all have a takeaway that is useful in life. Um, I learned a lot listening. I can't remember his name right now. He was out of Atlanta. And what I realized is he didn't yell. And not saying that some pastors aren't passionate, but I was able to listen to the message because he wasn't yelling. And I'll remember later his name. Uh, he's passed away now and he was a Sunday keeping pastor, but it really helped me to feel and understand that God loves me. And I've been going to church my whole life. And I did feel like, uh, God is just keeping a list. And he did. You know, Michelle, you're going to reach the bottom of the page and listening to that pastor softened me. And I was able to receive truth because I heard it in a different tone.
22:26 And some approaches just turn people off. So God has to work with every single one of us to relate to each other. That's true. Yeah. And you never know who the remnant of the remnant are too. We don't know at the end who's going to make it and who doesn't. Um, back in the church from a pastor that was a little wayward as well, but I was wayward way further than he was. And so I think it takes, it takes a, it takes a spectrum of different personalities and people to, especially if they're working with God, um, to bring people back. And so I, I praise God for that. Now, maybe I'll, I'll explain more about that sometime, but not today. And different personalities are attractive to different people. And when you find someone that can relate to you, you, you'll be more willing to listen to them. And it's important that we remember that we have, we all have a measure of influence. Yeah. God can use all of us and he has purpose for all of us. Absolutely.
23:19 It was the plan from the beginning. Yeah. And so some people are out of line with the purpose, but he's trying to bring us all back. Yeah. On that path. What would you say is the biblical way to do this? And would that be called a deliverance ministry according to what Roger Renaud says? Okay. What comes to mind is it shouldn't be a ministry by itself. Every home should be able to have a person or everyone in the home should be able to be united in prayer where we're confessing our sins asking for the Holy Spirit to deal with the enemy among us and whatever way he's found a way in help us break those chains and point out to us what we need to do going forward. That should be in every home. Also, when it comes to deliverance, what we do not see anywhere in the Bible is these, these hours long theatrical, you know, the shouting, the loud prayer, just irreverent behavior and putting people through torture.
24:20 Now, in that story, that boy was thrown on the floor and foaming at the mouth. It doesn't mean this needs to go on each and every time. And we also shouldn't have this large audience. These, we need to remember that when we're calling on the name of God, we need to have respect for the person who's going through, who's going through it and limit this environment to who needs to be here. Sometimes things happen in public and God will deal. He did deal with it at those times, but let's keep this to a respectful situation, not embarrass the person because it doesn't look good to see yourself thrown on the floor. The slain in the spirit that you see at some Protestant churches or apostate Protestant churches where people are just falling out on the floor and these deacons have to go cover them with blankets and towels. Like, the towels are behind their fresh towels. Every day you're ready for it because so these women aren't exposed. I mean, this is not what God wants. And why do they have to go through this every week? No, I don't. I think one thing we should realize is how not to do it.
25:24 Yeah. And we need to have respect for every person and we need to limit the, make it a controlled environment where we can feel that the Lord is welcome. I would really agree with what you're saying. Um, when I went through the chapter with Roger Mornell, I actually printed it so I could actually reference it. Yeah. I wanted to give you exactly what he said and some of the important takeaways. I agree. I highly respect Roger Mornell, but there are a couple of things in here that made me pause and really question. Um, so we can just hash that out together. But, um, and while you're looking that up, I just want to say break the fourth wall for a second. We're looking for comments on this video. Yeah. As we research this, we started this YouTube channel as the strange normal research group. This is SNRG. We, we want to study this a little bit more because we believe that this is going to become a bigger, bigger part of society.
26:21 Spiritualism is coming upon this world with a vengeance. It's taking notes. His time is short and, uh, we're going to see more and more of this stuff come about. And I think we need to be ready and understand this stuff because it's underground right now. According to what Morneau has said since the 1700s. And so we're, we're going to see more and more of this stuff coming about. It is becoming more and more overt though. I mean, the enemy is out there and he's loud and proud. Um, I think I had sent you a video before, but it was, um, some guy interviewing and it was a school shooting that was recent. And the guy who had, um, shot these children, he wrote all over his gun for the children. And where's your God? And then he, they like went to his home and found these journals. And in the journals, there's a drawing of him, um, looking into a mirror and seeing a demon to talk back to him.
27:12 And there's like translations they did for all the writing that was on the page. And it was him asking for help. And the demon saying it's over, kill yourself. I'm not, you shouldn't, I can't say that word. Just saying, you know, take your life. And so it's becoming a really big, loud issue. And I think as we get nearer and nearer to the end, the enemy is going to be more powerful. And I, I would agree with David Ng. And the fact that his whole, uh, goal is to control to control. And so if, if the enemy can find a way to control us, he's going to exploit that. And I think, um, that's why we should really take a close look at this topic. How is it that we protect ourselves from the enemy? And I think you have a really, a lot of valid points. Um, absolutely. It's just to add to it at the end of me learning the truth.
28:03 It's like the enemy was like, ah, can't use her anymore. And there was a push for me to unalive. Myself also. And it was a harassment that went on and on and on. And that doesn't end. That can happen from time to time, but I know those thoughts are mine. And that is, I believe the way the enemy has to get you out of the way, because if you're not on his side, you're on God's side. And that's a problem for him. And he wants Jesus to come back for no one. He wants him to come back and there'll be no one left. And so it's every single time you hear that at the end, uh, most people who have succumbed to this, it ends with, you know, them unaliving themselves. Yeah. So sad and tragic. Uh, that's, I think in itself though, a cry for why we need people who are well-versed in this. And I would agree with you. And the fact that it should start in the home, it should start with the family.
28:57 We should all have that atmosphere of, you know, waking up and starting with our Bible, being in prayer, being close to God. Absolutely. But what about those people who don't have that, have no experience, no experience with God and they're tormented and people that are actually possessed. I, I have never had that experience. Um, but I believe it's not like you're going out in life and you make a sin, you know, one little sin. And then the enemy's like, bulls, they're mine. You know, I think you have to go quite a ways and really have open door after open door before the enemy can come in and possess. Now, it was interesting in your story how, um, she asked for permission to do these things. So like you were saying, that was the enemy's open door because you gave permission. Yes. I have to complete that form. Yes. And so it's a contract before that you had never been possessed. You had never had anything like that. Um, I remember listening to your story a long time ago when Brad played the recording, I had to like turn on, I'm like, I can't listen.
29:56 That is so, uh, um, but I think it, it's powerful. And the fact that it shows like after you open the door, boom, just like with Joe, it can, you can wait to get the green light. He went and acted immediately, took out everything Job had in the day. He can't wait for permission. So we're just waiting. So he's just waiting. How much permission can I get? When the Miko Maddo was on your show, uh, he mentioned that too. Like how, um, we're just thinking about going to start to get milk. And he's saying, you know, can I blow up your car? And you guys, and the angels are like, no, you know that you have no right. And it's this constant battle that's going on for our life. And we have no idea we're going from day to day. And those things stick with me that I'm thinking about these little things that bother me, but there is a war we can't see for your life, my life, everyone we know and love all day long, all the time.
30:49 So how could God not be doing everything for us to be saved? And so we come along and then we fall for this. And it's just like, it's like, come on, Michelle, come out here doing everything for you. You think that we don't have, we don't have a relationship, but I had that belief for that moment, but I didn't have one because I was too young. I was told so, you know, sad. So he breaks this down over time. That's something that Roger Warner speaks to. And it was interesting to me because he says, Satan is seeking to overcome men today as he overcame our first parents by shaking their confidence in the creator. Satan's most effective way of undermining people's confidence is God is through spiritual leaders. Yes. So if you have a spiritual leader telling you, oh, you know, maybe you've got demons or, oh, you know, you need to deal with this. I think it would definitely shake your faith. And then you're like, has God been with me at all?
31:39 Like, what about my thoughts? Yeah, that that's scary. Um, so what I wanted to share with you was his seven step process. Cause he, Roger Morneau is very adamant about like, yes, there's a way to do this. And he calls it, um, his seven step process. So he says, number one is to throw out or destroy all literature that exalts deliverance ministries. Demonic spirits have a right to stay with us. All objects that bear their taint of defilement. This is a hard one for me because, um, I I've seen both sides. Actually. I had a friend give me, I was having dreams that I felt like were demonic. And I was like, you know, just talking to her about it. And she gave me a book on deliverance and I skimmed through it a little bit. Um, she's not the same faith as me. So I'm like, I don't know what's in here.
32:31 We'll see. Um, but the dreams like increased. And they were so bad. Yeah. An experience. And I think I was talking to you about it and you were like, just read that book. I did. And they stopped. And so I was like, oh man, who knew having a book, you know, just in my room that I'm not even reading. Cause it could have been written literally how, um, inspired and so the end is right in it. But you know, to say to throw out all of it, that's where I struggle because when he was alive, I'm assuming there really were not that many deliverance ministries. The materials. Yeah. The material is flourished. The material is flourishing now. Um, but you know, when God tells us that we need to be casting out the enemy. And it's clear in the Bible that it's like a gift, right? It's a gift that some people have that immediately tells me that the enemy is going to counterfeit.
33:22 It's true. He doesn't want to be kicked out. You know, he wants to maintain his ground. He doesn't want to people to realize they have sin and repent of it. So what's the best method? Like, okay, we've got one guy who knows what he's talking about. We need 10 that are going to say something else. Maybe, mix it all up. So the water's money. And I feel like that's where we are today. It's so muddy. People read one thing and then someone else has something else. Nobody knows what to go by. And so, um, I would say just like David Ings says, if you have something that talks about deliverance ministry, ask the Holy spirit to know he's trustworthy. He's not going to leave you with nothing. He's going to answer. Um, it would be like me with nothing but solid colors in your house because everything has a pattern and teach you about the pattern. I mean, it goes too far. It goes so far. You'll have nothing left. Yeah. White paper and solid colors is what you want because it's, it's woven into everything.
34:19 It's in our clothes, the labels, the pattern of our furniture. It's all connected. I actually heard one person who was having a peanut allergy and they were like, we need to cast out the demon of peanuts. I was like, is there, I don't know if I should laugh about that, but I'm like, Oh, that seems like a bit much. I know it's everywhere. Yeah. Maybe, maybe it's a combination of things. We don't know, but what, what really, I'm gonna throw a wrench in the conversation for a second because this is, um, I wouldn't call it a pet peeve of mine. Not anything you guys said, but, um, just something I overheard. I hear people, especially Christians outside of my faith say over and over again and on Tik Tok and it really bothers me. In fact, I think I have a couple videos I've saved of things like, this where a Christian would say, you know, I've been feeling the Lord has been telling me I need to leave my husband or I've been feeling the Lord doing some X, Y, Z sin.
35:19 We need to know the voice of God because I think that we can say that we are, we need to, that we can ask the Holy spirit for something and then we can hear something else come back to us. Right. And so I challenge everybody, to find out how to know the voice of God. I'm still learning this. Yeah. So how would you guys know the voice? That's life learning a life lesson. But honestly, I think our default is to take our experience and then read scripture, interpreting our experience, you know, like this is my experience and this is what scripture says. How do I mesh that together? What I think we really need to do is take our experience and test it with the Bible. If our experience, no matter how great it felt, if it doesn't line up with what the Bible says, recognize that might not have been from God because we have experiences that the enemy can put us through or feelings the enemy can give us.
36:18 And even if they're good, they're not from God. I remember earlier we'd had a conversation and you, you said you'd saw a blue orb and somebody told you it was the Holy spirit. Yes. Oh my goodness. I hadn't told anyone else about it. And when I told this person about it, he was like, yes, me too. Same family, by the way. Can you, can you tell us story? Yes. Um, same family. So I went through my final paperwork of divorce during 4th of July weekend. And I was like, I'm going to celebrate this divorce. And I, um, was with a person who believed you drink for everything, drink for good news, drink for bad news. And I was like, okay, one of everything. And then get the car ready. Cause I'm probably going to be sick. And the next morning, and I have no experience with drinking alcohol. I just figured, you know, I try everything. You're free. Um, and it was this sparkling about this big, about this far from my face.
37:13 And the whole room slowed down like slow motion where you could literally see like the lint float around the room and everything went slow and the sound went fuzzy. And it was just an orbit in front of me. And it totally took me in and I couldn't do anything but look at it. Just gazed at it. And I believe, now that was not the Holy Spirit, but that person told me, yeah, that's the Holy Spirit. I believe now it's just like what we learn about every day in strange, normal, these orbs. And that's why, um, we're discussing the other night when God says, when you, when Satan comes, don't go, don't even hear of another Christ. Don't go because even the saints, cause you can't handle it. We will not be able to handle. It's going to be mesmerizing. It's going to be beautiful because I'm telling you, I was frozen in time, like a slow motion and that was real life. And it didn't last for you.
38:14 This was in the morning, like during the morning over or yes, it was hang. I never knew what a hangover was. And then I learned what a hangover was, but that happened first. That was the first part of that day. After you, the next day after I, yeah, the next morning, no more alcohol in the morning. No alcohol in the morning. No drugs. But you had never, we hadn't like a repentance. So clearly, no, I mean, that was just a wide open door for. Yes. I mean, what was that? And of course I go and talk about it with someone who happens to tell me they saw it too. And that is the Holy spirit. I mean, the enemy just lines things up just so that by the time you follow up, it lines up exactly with some more false truth from him. So I want to make sure everyone knows in case it just is the only episode they saw on the whole channel. We often see these things in other people's testimonies. And, I, in the main, if you go to starfallmovie.com, that you're going to watch a trailer about how a lot of people see these glowing objects in the sky.
39:18 They're, they're round. They're sometimes yellow. There are many different colors, but oftentimes they're these orange, yellow objects and people call them stars. And the Bible calls, you know, Satan, his angels, these fallen angels, stars of the heaven. And so, a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of the occultists are seeing these round balls of fire, not only far away, but also up close. The military is seeing these things. And they say, they said they're 42 feet round, glowing balls of fire. And they, they, in fact, they just shot at one of these Tic Tacs. Yeah. For the record, I don't know if the Tic Tacs in the daytime are same as the fireballs at night, but it's interesting to me that they shot at this with a hellfire missile. One of the most, one of the most powerful missiles. It hit it. It knocked three other balls of light off of it. And it continued down doing its own thing. Like it didn't get hit. Something is happening here with these things. And I don't believe they are human.
40:20 I don't believe it's, it's from earth. I think that we're beginning to see the spiritualism that's happening. And just like your testimony. And that was over 10 years ago. That was 2013. But I, as I'm talking to you, I remember it as clear as if it was just, it was just this morning and it was a bright orb shape, this oval shape sparkling. And I'm telling you the whole room stood still. And it was like, you know, in the movie sometimes where they're having a memory. Yeah. The symbol, it was like that. It was really happening. And so you're like, man, a hangover, he's got all kinds of things, but not typical. No, it feels more like the flu. Actually, I've learned you just, you feel sick all day. And these are the little things. And then when you talk to someone else and then they, they, um, confirm it, you know, and he's like, check, dangerous, dire again. Yep. Keep on getting her. And then now you've gone down this slope of so much, so much, um, so many lies.
41:18 Yeah. That by the time someone else wants to tell you the truth, you're so sure, you know what you're talking about. Your experience is then tied to that. So you're like, wait a minute. Well, I don't think they're right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, no, it was not, and I would not have known if it wasn't for that discussion last night, because I didn't even think about the orb at the time. I just knew it was interesting too, because I've shared this with you guys before, but for people watching, it's crazy. But the very first time that we did a show together that night, my husband was woke up like two in the morning. Oh, you told me this. Yeah. And he always prays for protection over our property where we used to live. And, um, that night he saw a blue or just like floating in the woods right behind our property. And he's like, I just sat there and stared at for the longest time. And I'm like, I'm like, how stupid. Like we're researching this, talking about demons. And they're like, Oh, let's just have by.
42:08 Yeah. But I'm like, well, maybe they were tempting. My husband is like, does he believe, you know? And so I asked him, did you pray? And he was like, I didn't even think about it. Yeah. That's so many times people say that too. Why didn't you get your phone out and video it? I didn't think about it. I'm sure in the moment you're missing. I mean, I've never seen anything, but I can only imagine. That's why we cannot go. But it happened again. Yeah. And, um, it was again, like after we had done a show together one night, uh, it woke him up in the middle of the night and he saw it. And he's like, that time I prayed and immediately like zipped away. Really? Yeah. So I was like, well, there you go. And we never came back. Like once you pray, they're like, uh, I guess that's, and then move on with your life. They'll go research it. They'll go look it up. Don't go because in the showing up, like where is it? And that's what happens. People don't pray. And then they go and dive in to find out more about it. And then it takes over.
42:56 There's the danger. He starts seeing family members and other love points that have passed away. And he just, becomes advanced every single time. Yeah. It just morphs. Whatever will trick us. You've got more to the, the steps. Well, there's seven steps. Yeah. So number two says, do not speak to demonic spirits. What was number one? We went so far into a wrap. Number one was throw out all your deliverance ministry. All that memorabilia. Yeah. And you know, I would, I, David Ng talks a lot about, uh, not deliverance ministry, but he says any ties to a cult, um, any, any, like, super, souvenirs you might get that have other religions tied to it. You know, you think about the story, I think it's in Corinthians. Paul goes and preaches. And you burn all the books. And they burn like thousands and thousands of dollars of, of witchcraft. It's a thousand. Some of the currency. Yeah. And so I think that speaks volumes to us.
43:52 Like, yeah, if, if you, if it doesn't line up with the Bible, I would say throw it out. Don't hold onto it. Don't keep it for research. Throw it out. Like, I did that because I had acquired so many books. Digital books and physical books. And so I did that. I just did every single thing on that list. Cleat houses. That's good. Well, number two says, do not speak to demonic spirits, even to command them to depart in the name of Jesus. Let the Holy Spirit do that work. Even Jesus said that he depended on the spirit of God to cast out demons. This one is tricky to me. Um, I think we'll come back to that. But there's a reference. You have a Bible reference to it. Yeah. Um, I don't think it was necessarily that clear though. Okay. We'll, we'll look at it. So Matthew, Matthew, what?
44:42 Matthew 12, 28. See, cause here's the hard thing is that Jesus is the person that we're supposed to model. And out of all of the times when somebody is cast out in the Bible, they always say, leave them or depart in the name of Jesus. So they are talking directly, to that spirit. When they say be gone, it's a command, but it's always in the name of Jesus. But here he says, don't even command them to depart at Roger. More knows method is to pray and let the whole, like let the Holy spirit work in your absence. Um, but that's where I struggle because in the Bible, I don't see that. Okay. I will defend this for Roger Marno. And just remember that he was involved in a spirit worshiping, worshiping, um, group. And it was dangerous for him to talk to them because they had been a hit on his life.
45:40 Like there was no value for him to talk to these spirits. Yeah. I mean more. Yes. So, and yeah, he had so much involvement with the spirits. He's like, never again. Will I ever give them the time of day? I actually remember reading that recently where he was, they were harassing him in his apartment and he finally was like, okay, what? And then they spoke to him. And finally. Yes. Yeah. I was going to speak. Exactly. I'll be trying to talk to you. Yeah. So they, they need permission for that. So he's like, don't give them. But yeah, now he's like, I'll never again. Will I ever. Another reason not to speak with them is I've heard this over and over and over from mission stories is that if you give them the ability and acknowledge them, they, and you're in a crowd, they will name your sins. They will try to embarrass you as much as you can because they don't like you. They don't like anybody around there. Right. And so if, but if, if you have righteousness with God, this is, so I think this is why it's so important before you get involved in anything, before you try to pray and help somebody else, you have to be fully repentant.
46:41 You can't be coming up there with secret sins. You're hiding like, Oh yeah, that would be fabulous for the enemy to be like, watch this. Like, let her in. Yeah. Turn everybody against this guy because he's not righteous. So do we have any biblical proof? I don't know this answer. So I'm not trying to catch you guys in anything. Do we have any biblical proof that he can't bring up biblical? He can't bring up. Sins that we have repented of. I don't think he knows what we've repented of because he can't hear our prayers. When we're praying silently, some people pray silently, some people pray out loud. So wasn't the argument for Moses because he thought that he had something on Moses and he didn't know that he didn't. When Jude talks about the arguing over Moses, he doesn't know everything. He has no idea. So he might call out sins, and I think that's another reason why you need to let the Holy Spirit deal with it.
47:35 Yeah. Well, when you think about Jesus and he was surrounded by the religious leaders and the Pharisees, he didn't have sin. They were still trying. They were calling out all types of stuff. That's right. They kept saying, oh, you break the Sabbath. Yeah. No. So they, you're right. They do try it anyway. Yeah. I mean, they're liars. Yeah. Lying spirits. Regardless. I mean, I think they do. They watch us enough to know, you know, the sins that we've committed in our, in our past. And if it's going to hold leverage to debunk what we're doing, sure, they're going to try it. But, um, that's a good question. I don't know. I don't know. And again, if anybody has any ideas or it has any Bible verses, put it in the comments. We, we would love to know for more information about this because we're researching it. And it does say, you know, that Jesus, when we repent, that he blots out our sins from the book of life.
48:27 It's true. So he keeps no record of wrong, but that's Jesus. Well, like the enemy, he's probably got a list for all of us. Cause that's what he comes back with. What exactly? It's all things that we've let go. So he's always going to pull up the past. Yeah. He plays those whole tapes. Of course. Anyway, let's continue the list. Okay. So number three is talking about being in the Bible. So early every morning, read the account of Christ's crucifixion found in Matthew 27, 24 through 54. It only takes about four minutes and will greatly bless your life. Let me add something to that. I was doing that too. And that I recommend that to humble yourself because after you read that, whatever it is you're worried about, you can't still be worried after you read what Christ has done for you. I think that those, and I read the whole chapter, you know, for context from beginning and all of 27, because when you read what Christ is willing and has done for you, you've got to let him handle this.
49:25 Yeah. And that I, that takeaway, I recommend for everyone. At any time, go ahead and do it every day. It is humbling and it will remind you exactly how big of a God you serve and what he's willing to go through for you. Yeah. I was going to say that too. When you actually focus on the crucifixion, it reminds you that your sin is covered. You know, like some people struggle with that. I've done too much. I've gone too far. Even like one of the, I've heard some people say, well, like if you're possessed, you never actually, you can't ever actually get free. What a lie. Of course, it doesn't matter how far gone you are. Like Roger Morneau was being groomed to be in the satanic church. I actually read a story, um, a book it's called. He's, he set the captives free. And this book is interesting. I don't know that the whole thing is correct.
50:16 You got to read it, you know, with the Holy spirit with you. Um, but she was actually from a young age, um, brought into the occult. Her blood was given. Her mom didn't know, but some nurse, asked for her blood to help heal her from something. But the nurse was in, um, the, I think they called it the brotherhood or something. Um, but it's like the satanic church. And so they all drank her blood and then, um, could possess that girl from a young age and evil spirits were allowed to like overpower her. And she has all these testimonies of things that happened in her life. But, um, the crazy thing was she ended up being dedicated to Satan as a bride of Satan. Like this is, it's a crazy book. It's a lot. It was a lot to even die.
51:03 Like I took time and was like, Oh God, I don't know if this is real or what, but I think when you realize what the enemy can do, sometimes it scares people, but her story was beautiful because even though she was so far gone, God freed her, God freed her, you know? And if anybody is going to be untouchable, the bride of Satan, or they be, yeah. Well, they, I mean, they came at her for years. Like you're saying it's a lifetime. They don't give up. They're going to try. Cause they don't want to give up that territory, but, um, God can do those things. Yeah. And that's the opportunity to show that you are faithful to the end, to your last moment. Yeah. And how can you show that if you're not tested right up until your last moment? Yeah. Mm. Yeah. So you endorse to the end. We say, we know that there's no intercourse with, with, with evil angels. And so the bride of Satan, I'm sure that was just a ploy to make them think that they are forever tied.
51:58 There it is. Because you're special. I doubt it was actually his bride. He would have so many. That's crazy. Well, he did apparently in the story. He has, he has someone like every region, but she was the top bride in the North America. There it is. So you're special again. That's old. And he knows what would work on each person. Yeah. Okay. That's sad. Um, so after the crucifixion, he says, ask God for forgiveness of sin, whether it be in thoughts, words, or deeds. Which I think we all agree with. Uh, number five says, plead the merits of the blood of Christ shed at Calvary as the reason the Holy spirit should fight your battles. Earnest, persevering supplication to God and faith can alone avail to bring men, the Holy spirit's aid and the battle against the principalities and powers, the rulers of darkness of this world and the spirits in high spirit in high places.
52:55 I think there's a typo. So it's talking about the spirits in high places. And then number six says, pray for God to restore the faith you once had and Christ's power to save so that you will once again have an unfaltering trust in our great redeemer. And seven is memorize the word of God in order to live a victorious, successful Christian life. And then fill your mind with passages of scripture that will give you hope, encouragement, and joy in the Lord. Um, and I just want to say about this, if everybody, if everybody were to follow this, I don't think this would be an issue. You know, we wouldn't be seeing what we're seeing today and all the people that feel plagued by darkness or, you know, are having some weird episodes where people are saying you must be possessed. Um, but the fact is we're not, you know, like people become believers and somehow we get complacent and then we're like, Oh, well I read yesterday or the day before I'm busy, you know?
53:56 And so the, the problem is we are, we're not fighting the Christian battle as we should be. And the fact that we're nearing the end, you know, Christ is coming soon. I personally believe it's going to be in our lifetime. Absolutely. And it's going to be hard. Like this thing, it says it's going to be the worst time in earth's history. Spiritually. I believe some of it might be physical, that thing is going on in the world, but exactly the enemy knows his time is short and all the stops, all of it. Like he's not going to hold anything back. And if we, if we cannot get right with God every morning, if we can't take the time to read his word and be in prayer, yeah. And this is time of peace. Yeah, exactly. The time of peace is where you're able to sit here. We don't have to worry about anyone trying to come in and stop us.
54:47 We have the freedom to do this. This is a time of peace. There is something else that goes on with deliverance ministry that I'm not a person that wants lots and lots of money and to be wealthy, but it did teach. It teach that the enemy has stolen all of our rewards and gifts and that I need to go claim them back because they're waiting for me and I just need to get them back. And it also taught me that I can get seven times somewhere in the Bible that we're owed seven times that I don't know where in the Bible it was. Yeah. And you know, they use pieces of versus and that is an attractive thing for some people. And so if that will work, the enemy can use that way to keep you caught up in this ministry because you believe that you have to pray this way so that you can get rewarded instead of focusing on the big picture where God wants us to do to get the reward at the end when he comes, which is we go home with him and we have eternity forever with no worries, but he's teaching you get it now. Right. Right. And it's a gratification. It's instant gratification. So it's deliverance ministry. What I found was connected. Imagine like a spider web that can pull, you know, you in and it's connected everywhere and where everyone's involved because how did I get into it?
56:05 And then my mom said to me, she's like, Michelle, we've been in this our whole life. How did you get here? And I said, it made sense to me because I was feeling badly about bad things happening and wondering how did I get here? And someone goes, Oh, that's the spirit of rejection. That's this. And so there's names for this. So, okay. If you give me a name for something now, I can, handle it. Cause now I can go look up a process and that's what I did. And they're like, Oh, no problem. Not only do we have a name for it, but we have the process. Okay, great package deal. That would work on me because I'm not a person. So the enemy has like a buffet. Yeah. And he's got something for everyone. And one thing in deliverance is not only can you fight the spirit on your own and you're untouchable, but you're also going to be rewarded for fighting. Isn't that not like the whole hero, the superhero?
56:56 Why do I need Jesus? I could do it. Yeah. It's interesting to me because it sounds as if deliverance ministry is a, is a package term, but we really need to iterate down through what is the process because the, the enemy has made this very confusing. Yeah. On purpose. Tactical. Yeah. It doesn't need to be a ministry in my point. Yeah. It should be part of everybody's life and deliverance is something that God gives us. And deliverance is necessarily living rightly repentance. And, and, and, and making sure, I mean, following some of these things that Roger Renaud has said too in here. I have a hard question though, because, you know, I, I see where you come from and the damage that was done and you see how it was done wrong. Absolutely. And I agree with all of that, but to say that we don't need any deliverance ministries.
57:49 Oh, I don't mean it that way. Okay. It is. Everything's a ministry. We have personal ministries, prayer ministries, women ministries in women's ministries. Can we not help? Deliver each other from our prayer and, and working together in personal ministries. Aren't we doing the same, but because it is a worldwide, you Google that name and it's everywhere. And I don't think that's what a ministry should be. Something that anyone can jump into for a payment of $300. You should join this, get the book. Yeah. And that's, that's what I mean. But no, so when I say there shouldn't be a deliverance ministry, I mean, the mindset should be that, I can pray for deliverance from Jesus. I don't have to go call on someone and have them fly in. And this is the only person who can help me, but we can do this for each other, but that shouldn't be the way. And I'm telling you, when you look on these websites, there's phone numbers at the bottom. I mean, it's a whole thing. It's a business.
58:47 The hard thing though, is like, you know, I'm thinking about the story of David Ng, because that's kind of my foundation understanding of some of this. Um, his wife was tormented for years, for years. And he tried anything he could, didn't know what he was doing. And it took him a long time to understand how it worked. And because of that, he'd vowed, you know, if God helps me, not him, if God would deliver his wife, that he would spend the rest of his life helping other people get out of it. Um, and I think the big hangup for his wife was the fact that she wasn't willing to go through all the steps of repentance. And he'd said eventually that one of the things that was a huge open door for her was unforgiveness. And like that, the Bible says, you know, we need to forgive, but that's something a lot of people struggle with and they don't even recognize it. Roger Renaud talks about that in a trip to a supernatural.
59:42 The woman was, um, saying that she needed help. And he said, if she kept confessing the same sins and he said that, he said, that's how the enemy's getting in. There's, you don't believe you're forgiven. Yes. So we need to believe. Yes. But, but more than that, she wasn't even willing to offer the forgiveness to her husband. And so the unforgiveness that she was harboring in her heart was the open door in her life. And so I, I agree in a perfect world. Yes. We should all be equipped to like, if somebody comes up to you and they're like, I'm feeling harassed. Can you pray for me? That we would be like, you know, biblically sound and have all the tools and have all the faith to step up and be like, yes, let me help you with this. But the reality is, yeah. If someone were to come up to you and say, I think I'm possessed.
1:00:31 Can you help me? Like most people are gonna be like, Oh no, you need a professional, you know, like that's call your pastor. What anointed. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, a story that I shared with Brad years ago, and this is a ministry that I was involved in. I, I was not, um, as faithful then as I was now I've learned so much in the Lord from then till now. And, um, there was a lady that was legitimately, literally possessed. And I taught, I spoke with her for a long time before I realized that she was possessed. And when I realized it, I was like, Oh Lord protects me and let me go home soon. How did you realize she was possessed? Oh man. Well, story you told. I remember that. Yes. Yes. Um, what actually was like that, the red flag where I'm like, okay, no doubts now is I was talking to her and she had just crazy stories.
1:01:25 And I kept trying to, go back to Jesus and go back to God just to, cause it was a Bible study. You know, we're trying to keep the old taking and she's, yeah, she's running all over like they're going to do. They don't want you to talk about God. And, um, I kept saying Jesus. And she said, Jesus, Jesus, it's not Jesus. It's he's a, she's us. We're all one. And I was like, huh? I've never heard that before. I've never heard of Christ consciousness. They do believe that we're all defined, you know, according to them, not us. Um, but what happened was I said, um, you mean Jesus Christ? And she flipped out and she was like, I hate him. I hate him. I hate him. I hate him. And I was like, Oh, I just like sat back and like my heart, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, God help me. I feel like I'm going to get injured. Like she just went crazy. Wasn't she the one that also said that the spirits were saying that she was, it had been in a cave for a long time.
1:02:17 Oh yeah. Oh, she had crazy stories, crazy stories. Um, this is going to take up your time. Those time stealers. Oh, but we did a death. Yeah. One of the things though, that she did was at one point she, she was telling me she was collecting souls. She was labeled schizophrenic. And she said, it's, I'm not actually schizophrenic. What happens is I collect souls. I was just like, Oh yeah, that, that sounds like something the enemy would say. And then she was talking about it and she's like, it's really easy and simple. Do you want me to show you? And I was like, no, not you. But you know what? If I had held her, I mean, I felt like if I had even touched her hand, I could have been possessed. Cause that's an old, maybe that's your sign. Yeah. You know, but, um, this lady, I knew she was possessed, but I knew nothing about deliverance.
1:03:09 And in my, you know, ironically, my whole adult life, I've had dreams of casting out demons. Anytime, anything gets scary in my dream. Like I'm automatically like, Lord, cast it out. Yeah. And it's just like a subconsciously, it even plays out. But, um, my husband was like, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. I've had those dreams because God wants you to be involved in this. And I was like, Oh Lord, please no. I'm carrying. I think we're all going to have to do it in whatever way we can. Yeah. You know, if you have, but I was so equipped at that time that I, like, I didn't even have the confidence to say, can I help you? Do you want out of this? I was so scared. I was just like, okay. Mm. Nice. And then like, I let her finish talking. We talked a little bit longer. And then I was like, it's time for me to go. You know, I was terrified. But I wasn't equipped. Had I had like now, if I would like to say, but I would like to say that if I saw her now, I would have more confidence in who Jesus is.
1:04:08 And some people are like, well, can you cast demons out of somebody that doesn't want it? Roger Morneau would say yes. Yes. He would say he would pray. Yeah. He prayed from people. He prayed for people who didn't even know where that he could see them. Yes. Or people, a couple arguing and the car, anything. Yep. And I love that. And I do it too, because how can, we walk by and just let people do their thing. Yeah. If we, if we love God and we love people, we want to free them. We want to help them find the freedom that we found, the peace that we've done in God. But I guess the point that I'm making is the fact that most of us are not equipped spiritually. We don't have the faith in ourselves and in not in ourselves. That sounds bad. The faith that Jesus can work through us to truly help people. We feel like I've got to study that. I've got to be like a doctor, a doctorate degree in like deliverance or something in order to help somebody because we don't have that confidence in what the Bible tells us we should be doing.
1:05:05 I feel like there's a disservice to people that are truly plagued by the enemy. So like David, since he's done this, he's had so many people run to him and he does have, you know, a process, but I think it mirrors what Roger Morneau does for the most. I mean, I've, I've never sat in and deliverance ministry session with David, but from my understanding, he literally, he talks to them, hears their story, finds the open door and then prays in the name of Jesus to close the door. Like that's the same. That's the whole thing. Yeah. So why do we need a whole department reduction? Yeah. A whole production. We, and that's why I was saying to me, we don't need there to be a deliverance ministry separate off to the side, but who do people go to them? They already go to everybody. They know while already going to their pastors, they're not some problem. But like if, if I were to go to my pastor and say this, most pastors are like, that's not, that's not my Jersey. It's not my ministry. I hear that too. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
1:06:04 So it's kind of scary. You know, that's hard to say if there's not, if people that are labeled as deliverance ministry and somebody's plagued, like I've asked this person, I've asked this person, where do I go? What do I do? I hear you. I guess that's why we have prayer ministry, personal ministries, because I never even heard of the word deliverance until this person said it to me. So now it's a new shiny thing. So tell me more. Yeah. You know, you know, I think the big takeaway for me is in the years that I've kind of had some experience with people who have been possessed or oppressed, whatever. Um, it's like the, the enemy wants us to fear him because he seems so powerful. He wants us to think that, well, they're untouchable. And if you focus on the crucifixion, like Roger Morneau says, you'll realize, he's won.
1:06:56 God has won already. And like, he gives us the authority to trample scorpions and serpents is what he says. That's the enemy. That's the enemy. He gives us power over the enemy. So I think we need to stop having the fear of the enemy. I'm going to quote David Ng again. He'd say that, um, people are really hesitant to get involved with helping other people with this because they're like, I'm so afraid it's going to leave them and jump into me. And he's like, let me tell you, if they could jump into you, they'd already be there. Like that does not give them any. And so there's just such a vague understanding of all of this. But I think what we need to be truly afraid of is having a life of unrepentant sin. I agree. That's the open door. I do, though, think that there is something that we do that allows them to jump into us.
1:07:45 We've, there's so many things that people were, people are talking about. You go to certain places. Think of skin Walker ranch. You go to these places, you get a hitchhiker. They call it back and things start floating around your room, uh, disappearing, uh, manifesting. We give them permission sometimes by interacting with them or going to the places we know we expect them to be. Yes. And so I think there is, there is a, there is a door there that we need to make sure it's shut unless we have to. And if we do have to go there, make sure crisis with us. Yes. Cause he can protect you. Like I guarantee the people that went there and had all those things, follow them home. They're not righteous before God. They're out there seeking some entertainment. They're wanting to find something supernatural. So yeah, it's an open door, but I would say, okay, so when I first learned of David, just a quick story, this is the reason why I started really following him.
1:08:37 Um, I was part of this prayer group and the, the guy that leads it online, he was like, Hey, I think everybody should be willing to listen to this because it's like a third of the gospel. You, we need to understand how to cast out demons, how to find our open doors. Whatever. And so, um, I decided when I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm going to go through this series, like a six part seminar. And we were actually in between houses staying at this Airbnb. And, um, the house that we were wanting was such, so it was like a drug out and we were at this Airbnb for two months just living there. I'm like, I was like, God, what are we doing? Um, so I remember having this prayer time with the Lord and being like, okay, we're here. We can enjoy this Airbnb. I'll have to like, clean, you know, as much as I would my own house. I don't know.
1:09:25 Um, but it's like, I'm going to treat this like a good time with the Lord, with my family. It's, you know, less responsibility. But I remember praying like, God, use us right here. I don't know how, I don't know what, but use us. And it was like day two or three that we were there. And the, the road that this Airbnb was on, all very nice houses, except one that was right across the road. And this bus stops. And this kid, real shaggy looking kid, like holy clothes and his, uh, his hair's all dirty, gets off the bus and goes into this rag tag house. I mean, it was like, the windows are boarded up. It does junk in the yard. I'm not, no judgment on people. My yard's probably not the best looking right now, but I mean, red flags in my head. And like something in my spirit was like, I need to pray for this kid. And it was just like, I don't know what he's going through, but I remember praying. I was like, God, be with this, this kid, like reveal yourself to him.
1:10:18 If there's other kids in that house, just protect them, show them your love, and then I forgot about it. Um, and it was like a week later, my boy, he is so extroverted. He's like, mom, I want to meet everyone in the street. And like, it's winter and everyone's indoors. I'm like, we're going to knock on the door. You know, I'm like, Ooh, maybe. Yeah, sure. And then he kept saying it and kept saying it. And you know what? It was like Valentine's day. And I was like, okay, this is like a good reason to maybe, yeah, to maybe approach people as a holiday. People are friendlier or whatever. Um, there's this one line where it says, uh, John three 16, but then it says Valentine down it. So it's like an acrostic poem or for God's soul of the world, but then it spells Valentine. So, you know, it's like, well, there we go.
1:11:04 It's connected to Valentine's day, whatever. And then we made some cinnamon rolls and we started passing them out to the neighbors. And the last person that he gave it to was this old man that pulled up at this house and my son gives it to him. I'm like watching out the window. I'm making, yeah, you go, you know, I'll watch. Does the Lord be with you? And he, my son tells me this. He's like, he asked, well, what does that mean? And I'm like, what did you say? He was like, I don't know. The Lord should be with you. It's very innocent. Honest. It's funny. Well, so the next day from that house, we're outside building a snowman in the front yard. This little girl comes out and I'm like, I've never seen a little girl in this house or in the yard or on the bus, nothing. And she comes out and she just leaves us some carrots in the yard for the nose of the snowman. I was like, yeah, well every day she starts coming out and she's like, can the boys come over and play?
1:11:53 And I'm like, well, you can come here and play in that. Cause it's like a fencing backer. You can play here. And she's like, let me ask my grandpa. So they're playing. And, um, I kid you not the night before I'm watching David and it's all about like open doors in your life. And he leads you through, like, if any of these, um, like hit home with you, you have an open door, pray, repent, cast out. And I'm like, there's someone I'm like, huh? Yeah. And so I just started praying. Cause he's like, we need to teach our kids how to be powerful, how to find their open doors and close them to the enemy. And so I was praying like, God, help my boys be aware of the spiritual worker that's around us. The next day, this girl comes over and they're playing in the backyard. And afterwards I'm asked, I'm like interviewing my child. He said, how did it go? You know what you're talking about? He's like, well, I tried telling her about Jesus. And I asked if she knew the 10 commandments. And she said, well, my family worships God, but we call him master.
1:12:50 And I was like, oh my God. And I was just like, hold the phone. I'm like, reply. Like there's a whole one church. I know that calls their person master. Yeah. And so I started talking to Mike and I was like, we talk about things all the time. So it's not like a new conversation. And you watch a super book where like, there's a sub episode where the character, Chris is trying to share the gospel and kids are like making fun of them. Don't want to hear it. Wait, who are you talking to? My son. Yeah. Yeah. And so he just had, he just had these shows and like Bible stories where people are rejected for their faith, but he's never experienced that. And I've told him like, there's a whole church of Satan out there. You have to be careful. And boom, you knew this little girl and her family. So in the course of talking to her, she tells us that yes, my family goes to satanic church. Yeah.
1:13:40 Like, and after she like confirmed and told me these things, I just start praying. I'm like, God, I don't want my kids around this. You know, if it's worth it i'm like god if there's a way to reach her let her come back she didn't come back for a week oh she later tells us though um the day before that she left um micah my son did something rude and i ended up giving him a time out and i was like you need to go out there apologize to your brother so she can see you know forgiveness ask for forgiveness you know be the good example and your mistake it's fine just do this and so he goes out there and he says you know i'm sorry um whatever and then he asks if uh he can pray with this little girl they literally kneel down in front and they're all in his little circle praying and then he comes out i'm like watching i'm like oh they're praying well that's great you know and then they come in and i'm asking about it and he's like mom she prayed too i'm like would she pray i don't know about this because like she prayed for her family to know jesus oh i know i was like okay god it's worth it yeah but you know i prayed like if there's an avenue for us to reach her let her come back and she didn't come back for a week because it's that long here's the thing she tells us later that her dad found out that she prayed and said you're not allowed to go back there and eventually he's you know he let her come back but i was just like good lord let me let me fast forward so we're there two months and we have her over we ended up buying a bible and i was like praying over it like don't let it be destroyed to let like somehow hide it and and then i had this like thing and i'm like i'm gonna make a cover for it so i made a cover for it and put her name on it i'm like so it doesn't look like maybe right away yeah and i'm it'll be hidden i don't know god can do things you know that we can't do but um i kid you not i was watching another david ing um the night before and it was talking about if there's anything from the occult if somebody from any of these things gives you a gift get rid of that because it could be cursed it could be an open door all these things so the night before i'm telling my son this because she gave him some like piece of origami or something and i'm like just in case it's a gift can we please throw it away and he was like yeah that's fine you know throw it away oh thank you throw it away and then the next day because i explained to him you don't want to accept these things from people in the occult they can be open doors they can be curses and you're like okay the next day was our last day there and she tells us um you'll leave when i'm in school but um i have a i'll come by and see you before i go to school and i was like okay great so she comes by gives us all hugs and my boys are outside and she gives them both a little bracelet and i'm like oh they're all anyway yeah and then she leaves she and i tell my oldest son like we i you know it's just stars and beads and i'm like you really gotta throw that away and he's like that's fine mom and then gabriel has a bracelet and he's four so he's like no that's fine she gave me a gift and i was like honey we just really gotta throw it away like michael let me throw it away and he's like fine and i go and i take it and it's just plain beads it's uh green and black and white but then it has three letters and it says die d-i-e oh my goodness i was like no way you have got to be kidding and she doesn't know i was like what did her family make it and like force you have to probably work at her into giving i was just floored but you know what like i i found those lessons with david i prayed for an avenue to teach my children and then my kids saw firsthand how the enemy was trying to get in i was like it was scary but i was just like gabriel to die so he could see he you know so which is like i told them okay yeah like on the when we left i told them okay but it was like we can't do that just like that they use a child i know they use a child to deliver yeah that's what they'll use anyone yeah but this is why we have we can't keep these things yes but also i i guess the point that i'm trying to make is if i hadn't watched david's sermons the seminar at that point i wouldn't have even known that those sermons would have been could really be an open i mean the bracelet that says die i wanted to get that or gnarless but like the fact that i'm like repenting of of my potential open doors i wouldn't have known those things i think about your children too that's how god lines up the opportunities he's know you're watching there's an opportunity for you to see because you notice yeah that we get right in front of truth you see the little girl like you can't unsee what you saw and it's on your mind god lines up and he winds things up too absolutely my experience he lined things up so i with what i heard the orb the orb and the whole thing because it lined up where it was connected to memories and past and so that's why we have to keep listening every day i like to listen to sermons every day every morning when i'm getting ready we have to listen every day so that we can
1:18:34 stay on top of all the ways that he's trying to access our life and we never know what we're going to hear or learn yeah we need to listen to as much as we can of the right person and you don't know to you ask god to lead you to the right people yeah to listen to study the original material yes i will look at what someone believes too when someone comes and tells you something it's more important of what they believe not just what they're talking about oh how they learn it from yeah and then you're better off and just take it all back to the bible and take it like we're supposed to test every spirit every spirit and so there's gonna be a plethora of deception out there and that doesn't line up with the bible toss it yeah god will get you the lessons a different way it doesn't have to be that way for sure it does yeah well we're you did you make it through all the the points or um man there's always more but that's that's most of it so one question that was on there is can christians be possessed truthfully though i think we've already kind of said this you have to have an unrepentant relationship relationship a repentant relationship not but but like you have to be sure yeah um what did i say i think it all goes back down to what we've been saying is that you have to have an ongoing repentant relationship because if you're in christ and you have decide to sin that's an open door it's a legitimate open door to the enemy so if you're like well i'm in christ i'm covered by his grace but you don't repent then the enemy has some foothold in your life and i think it starts with like some harassment or oppression where he's on the outside giving you bad thoughts or you know just trying to attack you and then when that continues you you go down this road well some people believe they're in christ but they're not convinced that their lifestyle is wrong so we have to pray for repentance yes and so can a christian become possessed that is such a hard question but the truth is somebody can believe they're right with christ when they're not yeah and i think that's one of the greatest deceptions of the enemy like let people believe they're right with christ let them flourish in the church and i believe that's the definition of deception yes i mean you know you're something you think you're something when you're not you're deceived you're just yeah and so it flies in the face of a lot of these churches that i what i like to say they believe in magic words as as if they say i believe in jesus christ and i've repented or even i've been baptized and i'm saved and forever forever you don't have to worry about anything yeah and truly you don't have to worry about anything if you're in that relationship with christ but you don't you got to maintain that relationship yes it's not just a relationship it's a relationship with christ it's a relationship with christ it's not a workspace maintaining but just like if you were to go to your wife with flowers you're doing it because you love them not because you have to this oral yeah so you you you maintain that conversation you maintain that that communication and that's what keeps you inside the protective bubble yes and when you're close with christ and you do something wrong there's conviction like you as a christian you cannot sin and be like i'm not going to sin oh i'm good i feel fine yeah unless you have grown numb to the voice of the holy spirit which are they a christian at that point they could draw back to the lord but like people think the word christian is like this stamp yeah i'm a christian boom no one can touch and you can't inherit it can't say well my parents are christian i'm good right no that's a personal relationship with god yeah that goes along there was a scripture i was going to bring up and i don't actually have it um but it it's the scripture that says like no height no depth no anything nothing can take us from away from the love of god but i would challenge people to question can you walk away from the hand of god it's we walk away he never leaves us he doesn't leave us but you can leave him yeah you know because it says like you were talking about before he who endures to the end will be saved that's a future tense will be it's not you are saved once and for all and no one can ever touch you because you've got that stamp that's revelation yes but but again i think that's the great deception and so just really quickly like looking through the bible um we see in second corinthians 12 7 i'm not going to read all these so viewers can look these up later paul had the thorn in the flesh and he said it was a messenger of satan that was buffeting him and so he was an apostle it sounds like he lived an unrepentant life but the enemy constantly trying to harass him um but wasn't possessed luke 22 3 um satan entered judas yes
1:23:29 this is tricky because he was one of the 12 right and when jesus sat down at the table at the last supper and says one of you will betray me they're like what who so there was no outward sign that he was even hearing from the enemy and then in order to actually betray jesus says satan entered not an evil spirit satan so there it is entered him possessed yes and i'm sure he believed he was doing something right yeah i believe i read or listened to explanation that jews thought that everything was going to work out late yeah he thought either either he's not i think he believed there's no way jesus could die yeah and so he's just going to manifest his power i'm just speeding up the process having a bit of money on the side yeah it's maybe all this back to the churchill at all later yeah yeah who knows i mean we can't read his mind but i think it's it's a little unnerving the fact that he was literally possessed and they had no idea so like satan can hide perfectly well right dr rambali talks about that uh follow dr rambali he did a three-part interview on chris lang's channel and he talked about uh they thought that this this person this this young woman they were working on that they were free and he said it was hiding and they weren't done but again it wasn't this painful process that went on yeah with you know people on the floor but it did go on a little longer yeah and it was necessary because this person was unable to speak for themself and so it's a struggle we don't know what's going on in the mind until after someone's free and they can discuss it with you yeah so it just proves god has to do it we don't have that kind of power if a conversation could fix everything when we just have one yeah yeah god is working with us for our whole life yeah to get us to the point where we're ready so it has to be a process and you have to constantly keep giving yourself over to god to help him work it out yeah and it's it's a lifelong battle even then yes i agree um so then the last couple examples is in matthew 16 23 when jesus tells peter get behind me satan and so um something i read by um conrad vine he was saying that this proves that any time that we um take a thought of our own and it's against what the bible preaches we are actually working on the side of the enemy so yes like satan can put thoughts in our head david says that like step one is recognized not all the thoughts in your head are your own test those with scripture so like if peter had like heard like oh no he can't die he shouldn't do that but then he tested it with wait jesus said this was going to happen he wouldn't have said that he wouldn't have said that yeah but satan was using peter to tempt him to think maybe there's another way you know so definitely peter was not possessed but oppressed and then um just the example of job you'd already mentioned yes you know he was horribly uh damaged and harassed by the enemy but never possessed and john the baptist this is an interesting when he was in prison and he sent word to jesus saying uh are you the christ or do we look for another clearly because he'd already said this is the lamb of god clearly in that moment and this doubt yeah like the enemy was harassing him in jail the last moments of his life like it was that the christ why maybe he was thinking he's gonna come liberate me from this jail cell did i did i fail my mission yeah go to the wrong christ yeah yes so but more than that i feel like that should be an example to us like it's okay to battle with our thoughts it's okay to to question god in the sense of like help me through this um yeah check it out research ask questions study and then for those of our listeners that are of the adventist faith um ellen g white she has some instances where she very uh clearly says that she was being harassed and um um A lot of it was physical. Like she couldn't breathe at one point. Her tongue went fat. Yes. They were like trying to.
1:27:48 She was writing a great controversy. Yes. When she was writing a great controversy, it said that the enemy was coming at her to try to take her life. And so I think all of this should be said because it should be encouraging to us. If Paul and John the Baptist and Peter, the closest people to Jesus, Al and Wyatt, these people have all been harassed by the enemy. What should we expect? The same. We should expect it. But we need to know how to fight. And, you know, it's not black and white. Everybody's situation is different. Everybody's walk through sanctification is different. But how do we figure out what to do? You read the Bible. We pray for the Holy Spirit to lead us. And maybe he's going to lead you to somebody that has more knowledge than you. But take what they say and bring it back to the Bible. Amen. You know, does it line up? So in summary, I know we've talked a long about this and I think it's fascinating. But in summary, and help me with the summary.
1:28:41 I think the guidance that we should give is as of now, be careful what deliverance ministries you've accepted as deliverance. Look to the Bible to find if they're using the correct method and proceed with prayer and make sure you yourself are with Christ. Yes. Yes. Stay repentant so that you can hear the voice of God, so that you can discern right from wrong. And he will guide you. And I'll add to that in my experience. Although I wanted to believe, I still had a part of me that was praying, but Lord, if I'm off on the wrong track, please get me right. And he knew that I really wanted to do the right thing. And so I did go through some of this, but it wasn't for long, three months. But he did bring me to the truth. And I know it with my whole heart that the truth is this is the way, not this show.
1:29:40 That makes you feel that spirits are just hanging out in your body. And Christ was your intercessor. And that's right. It was me getting on my knees, confessing to God that I did wrong, going this way, deal with this, bring me back and show me the right way. And that's all we can do. Amen. Apologize. Apologize that we did wrong. Confess and move forward. Amen. Amen. Amen. Well, would you like to close? Let's listen to prayer. Sure. Sure. Dear Heavenly Father, God, we love you and we praise your holy name. We thank you, Father, that you are good, good, so good to us and that you have not left us as orphans, that you have sent the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us and that you will bring us to all truth. God, when we come to you asking for truth. And so I pray that you would help us, Father, to live repentant lives, that each day we would come before you asking for the Holy Spirit.
1:30:39 To reveal what it is in our lives that is not in tune with you. If there's anything in our lives that is not in line with your word, with the Holy Spirit, Lord, reveal it to us so that we can live a life with closed doors. And God, I pray for all those listeners and all of our family, those that we love, that you would give us opportunities to share and speak truth. That we would have your Holy Spirit so that we can discern what is in line with your word. And God, we praise you. That you offer us so much truth. That you are the way and the truth and the life. And that you are coming back soon to rescue us from this world of emptiness. God, you are our Savior and we love you. And we praise your holy name. Amen. Amen.